This is the sixth of a number of Book of THoTH interviews with the speakers at the Symposium Conference 2006 . This being with Greg Bishop who owns The Excluded Middle Website. Questions by THoTH and Oddthings.
BoT: Welcome to the interview Mr. Bishop.
GB: Thanks for giving me the opportunity to expound on my crazy ideas. It doesn’t happen too often.
BoT: You are a prolific writer on a wide range of topics, from UFO’s to Nikola Tesla. Can you tell us what was it that began your interest in the paranormal, i.e. the first influences and why that got you interested?
GB:I haven’t the slightest idea why I became interested in this stuff. As far back as I can remember, I’ve been interested in anomalies. When my sister and I were past reading “Cat In The Hat” and other such things, My father used to take us to the library every week and told us to check out as many books as we wanted, and read them before coming back the next week. For some reason, I started in the Dewey decimal system at 127......
(“The Unconscious and the Subconscious”) and finished up at the end of the paranormal section. We then started on another local library and I did it again with their collection. Dad didn’t seem to care what we read, just that we did.
In junior high school, girls and other interests took over, and the paranormal didn’t resurface until a few years after college, when I was going through a tough time and for some reason, rediscovered the subject through an article on Wilhelm Reich written by Robert Anton Wilson in a now long-defunct zine. Maybe it was meant to be this way.
BoT:When did you start your writing and research?
GB:In 1987, looking on a newsstand, I found a zine published by Donna Kossy, called “Kooks.” I called information in Boston, and amazingly, got her number. I asked Donna if she wanted an article on UFO contactees. She actually paid me $20, and I was off. In 1991, two friends and I founded a magazine called “The Excluded Middle.” We examined UFOs, psychedelic drugs, spiritual traditions, and political conspiracies, because as we found, they are connected. The magazine was last published in 1999, and is now collected in a book entitled “Wake Up Down There!” A few choice bits of material from the magazine are collected at excludedmiddle.com.
BoT:What makes you want to write and speak about these things?
GB:Writing about them is a necessary evil of the learning process. My curiosity about UFOs and the paranormal forces me to read extensively about a particular subject, and writing about them is a logical extension of this, since it forces me to think about what I have read, people I have talked to, and the conclusions I may reach (although these are few.) Speaking about them helps to:
1) Force me to re-think my conclusions and research,
2) Interact with people who may have more or different information and views and
3) Sell books.
BoT: Do you find your writing/research easy or not?
GB:The research ranges from incredibly easy and fun to difficult and frustrating. I don’t get easily frustrated though. The writing is always a grind, because I would rather be out looking at more stuff and talking to more people.
BoT:What’s the easiest thing about your writing or research?
GB:Finding a subject or story to get involved in.
BoT:What’s the hardest?
GB:Figuring out which one to peruse. I sometimes have long periods of writing inactivity due to this!
BoT:Could you tell us briefly the main concepts behind your views on UFO’s and contactees?
GB:After 60 years of looking at sighting reports, abduction scenarios, blacked out documents, and the like, Ufology still has no real idea why these things are here, why they interact with us, and where they come from. To be sure, there are lots of people who have theories, but they are provable to no one but others who are interested in the subject. Carl Jung’s quote from the 1950s still holds true: “Something is seen, but no one knows what.”
Even my leanings toward a time- and space-free view of whatever these intelligences are impresses very few, even in Ufology. My views are not completely original, but seem to be unpopular with the mainstream nuts-and-bolts guard who hold sway over the vast majority of the subject, and subsequently the journals, magazines, and media view of UFOs. Jacques Vallee once said that he would be very disappointed if it were all just aliens coming here in ships from other planets.
As for the Contactees, there is a good chance that at least some of them did experience some sort of contact with something extra-human. Whether these contacts continued as they claimed, I am not sure, but too many people have dismissed them for too long. It might be time to reassess our views of that period and consider the movement in a different light, while acknowledging the silliness factor.
BoT:What’s your favourite subject to delve into and why?
GB:Officialdom (government and private sector people with an interest in and access to supposedly classified info) and their understanding/ interaction with paranormal subjects and events. This is not as most would suspect because I think they have the “ANSWER” to the mysteries we are all looking at. What perhaps is going on is that some of them know a lot more in terms of quantitative information, but little more than the rest of us suspect, or theorize on the reasons behind UFOs and other paranormal things. The “private sector” people consist for the most part of intelligence or science personnel who have left or retired from their official capacities and now peruse answers on their own, probably represented best by the Society for Scientific Exploration and their investigations of psychic phenomena, cryptozoology and UFOs, among other things.
BoT:Who are your favourite researchers/writers?
GB:This is NOT in any particular order, but:
Jacques Vallee
John Keel
Nick Redfern
Jim Brandon
Kenn Thomas
Rob Sterling
Jim Keith
Loren Coleman
Jim Moseley
Whitley Strieber
Joe Mc Moneagle
Gray Barker
Greg Palast
Dean Radin
Robert Anton Wilson
William S. Burroughs
Edward Abbey
John Fante
Lafcadio Hearn
Not all of them are non-fiction or anomalies writers, as you may notice.
BoT:The Book of THoTH is about bringing a greater resource of wisdom for those ;;who want to explore further, what would be your message to those who are just beginning in their quest?
GB:That depends on what the quest is. Your site directly references the western occult tradition in the title. Golden Dawn bigwig Israel Regardie suggested that anyone thinking of delving into the occult in any serious way should see a therapist to deal with any lingering personal issues. Very good advice.
If you’re interested in UFOs and the paranormal, read some of the skeptical (and not the rabid fundamentalist-materialist type) literature after initially looking at the hundreds of book titles and websites that jump into the subject without a critical mindset. Above all, doubt is probably the most valuable mental tool. Think with your head and your
heart. When one rules the other, you either become a wide-eyed believer or a party-pooping skeptic. Coincidentally, this is also part of the message of western occultists.
Note by THoTH - ;;The Title of the site was nothing to do with western occulticism, instead it was inspired by legends of an ultimate book of wisdom written by the Egyptian god Thoth.Occultists like crowley ;;used the term also, but that doesn't mean the title belongs to or directly references the occult.
BoT:There are many skeptics in your range of topics. What would you say to ;;them?
GB:Science evolves. Most often it does so in careful steps, and in rare instances as mass-paradigm shifts. This applies to public perception and opinion as well. This is good. Those who cannot or will not consider phenomena that aren’t completely covered by current theories gum up the process. “Believers” who insist that aliens are here to help us have the same effect. “Authorities” and “experts” almost always have an agenda.
Everything is a best guess. Some things are more predictable than others. This is usually called “reality.” Reality is changing continuously.
I have a problem with the term “skeptic” as a negative term. A true skeptic is one who doesn’t take everything in without applying some critical thought. The term as it is applied by the UFO and anomalies communities today usually refers to anyone who doesn’t agree with the reigning cult of “mystery.” Perhaps we can call these people “Fundamentalist skeptics.” Most of them seem to be scientists, science fiction writers, and stage magicians, and others afflicted with a curious need to be “right.” The term “Debunking” has been applied in a similar way, although there are many things that need the bunk taken out of them!
There are however some “skeptics” who would do the field a great service if their opinions were considered. Kevin Randle comes to mind.
BoT:Where do you see yourself in, say, 5 years time, and what will you have achieved?
GB:There will be more books and articles appearing with my name on them, I will have learned a bit, and will have met many more great people.
BoT:Have you any advice for people wanting to follow in your footsteps?
GB:Decide what interests you and follow that. This is one area where doubt will waste a lot of time!
BoT:What are the best resources that people can use to learn more about your areas of interest/research?
GB:I have three books out, “Wake Up Down There!” (already mentioned), “Project Beta: The Story of Paul Bennewitz, National Security, and The Creation Of A Modern UFO Myth,” and the newest one, “Weird California” which is about strange things, locations, and events in my home state. My website is http://www.excludedmiddle.com and if you’re around your computer on Sunday nights, my internet program “Radio Misterioso” is broadcast from 8-10 PM PST at http://www.killradio.org. Some of the best shows are archived at http://www.radio4all.net/index.php?op=producer-info&uid=1536&nav=producer-directory&
BoT:How’d you come to be involved with the New Frontiers Symposium?
GB:Paul Kimball and Mac Tonnies were on my show a few months ago. The freewheeling conversation drifted to the topic of what was wrong with Ufology and what might be done to change it. Someone suggested a conference with people WE wanted to hear, and to his eternal credit, Paul decided to do it. Since I was “present at the time of creative inspiration” I forced him to put me on the speakers’ slate, or face massive legal retaliation. This is one of the archived shows available for listening/ download.
BoT:What’s your talk at the symposium going to be about?
GB:It’s about the 1950s UFO contactees--looking at them not as a bunch of deluded hucksters, but perhaps as some kind of unorganized art movement with elements of real spirituality. Some of them actually may have had some initial contact with something they thought, or really was, from outside their own heads. This apparently made it OK (at least to them) to make things up later. My friend Adam Gorightly gave a talk a couple of months ago on the Contactees as ritual magicians, which is another fruitful area of study.
BoT:Are there any projects that you’re currently working on?
GB:Sending out book proposals on various subjects, taking a class in ghost hunting taught by Richard Senate, and discovering the identity of the mysterious “Falcon.” This man was the puppetmaster in the various shady Air Force and government disinfo campaigns directed at Ufologists in the 1980s and ‘90s. He was the main “behind-the-scenes” character in my book “Project Beta.” It may be earth-shattering, or it may not.
BoT:What should we look for coming up on your radio show?
GB:More interviews with people I find interesting, and plenty of strange music from people who usually don’t have a record contract, and often don’t care.
BoT:Any final message for the members of The Book of THoTH and the rest of the world?
GB:Death to all fanatics!
BoT:Thank you for the interview Greg. I really appreciate the time you took out for this. Have fun at the symposium. I look forward to talking to you afterward and finding out how it all went. ;; ;; ;; ;;