"You always know the mark of a coward. A coward hides behind freedom. A brave person stands in front of freedom and defends it for others." Henry Rollins
Few people in the world of punk and rock have had the musical impact of Mr. Henry Rollins. From the highly influential days of “Black Flag” in the 1980's, to his inspired work with the “Rollins Band” which continues to this day, Henry Rollins has been an outspoken and oftentimes visceral voice of truth in a world of trendy pop-icons and corporate standards.
His unique and insightful spoken word style has earned him quite a reputation, and contemporary artists like Nick Cave, the Misfits, Les Claypool, Iggy Pop and Tool would agree. With over fifty albums and spoken word CD’s to his credit, and dozens of book releases which he’s authored, it would be hard to deny the sheer creative output that this man has accomplished over the years. Most recently, he’s raised a little controversy with his thought provoking interviews and commentary on “The Henry Rollins Show”, in particular a clip which has made many rounds on the Internet in recent weeks entitled “Freedom is Under Attack”. While the censors at Youtube have taken the clip offline recently, you can still find this profound segment posted through other video servers, as well as the transcript which is available at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/henry-rollins/
I’ve personally been a big fan of Mr. Rollin's work for many years now, his album “Weight” is one of my favorite disks of all time. It’s a great honor and pleasure to bring you this exclusive interview with punk legend Henry Rollins. I had the chance to ask him a variety of questions regarding Internet censorship, his musical career, and his thoughts on the corruption within the Bush Administration.
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-MAD: Mr. Rollins, it’s really an honor to speak with you today, thanks for being with us. Whether you’re aware of it or not, or too humble to admit it, you’ve been a huge inspiration to us "Gen X’ers" out there who grew up listening to your music. The work you’ve done has been a major influence for many aspiring musicians over the years, and I’ve played some of your albums a million times as well. "In My Head" from BLACK FLAG, as well as "Come in And Burn" from ROLLINS BAND and your classic album WEIGHT have been in heavy rotation in my player for the better part of the past decade. You also have your own publishing label at: http://21361.com/ I definitely see a few things that will be on my Christmas list this year. You’ve been affluential in both the realms of music and writing, as well as spoken word and poetry. Is there a specific area that you are more drawn too, or are they all equally important in your creativity and self-expression?
-ROLLINS: Thank you for the kind words. I am drawn to all of them. The stage stuff is the most attractive to me because it demands so much and it’s so incredibly pass/fail. An audience can tell if you’re dialing it in so one must be honest up there. It forces the best out of the performer. The writing is very difficult for me as I am rarely able to make words serve me as well as they serve writers I admire. The older I get, the more the writing becomes important to me. Perhaps I am just getting better at sitting down for long periods.
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-MAD: Not to sound like I’m "puckering up" to you, but you have accomplished so many amazing things in your career. Your resume is impressive to say the least. From the early days of BLACK FLAG to your work on the ROLLINS BAND, you’ve carved a very unique niche in the music and publishing industry. Most recently, on THE HENRY ROLLINS SHOW, you did an impassioned speech regarding "FREEDOM IS UNDER ATTACK". Do you believe that the Internet still has the potential to be of a great benefit for the people of this planet, and what do you see as some of the positive and negative influences of the World Wide Web?
-ROLLINS: The internet can be a great thing when used for good and an equally dangerous thing when used to injure, mislead, prey upon, etc. Also, when one is only given partial access, it’s almost worse than not having it at all. I am talking about Google in China, where one can’t access anything about Falun Gong that’s not derogatory, when one types in the word freedom apparently, nothing happens. I read all this on articles I found on Google, of course. They really wanted to get into that market and did whatever the Chinese wanted. In many ways, all the American servers who are there doing business are only helping to suppress the Chinese people. On the whole, I think the internet does far more good than bad. I don’t know how many books I would need to have to be able to access all the information I pull from the net in just one week. That there are some who seek to regulate it does not surprise me.
-MAD: Congratulations on your innovative work with "The Henry Rollins Show", by the way, which airs every Saturday at 10pm ET, on the Independent Film Channel. From Kevin Smith and Perry Farrell, to Ozzy Osbourne and Jeff Bridges, you’ve had a parade of influential talents on your program. Is there anyone who you would love to schedule for your show someday?
-ROLLINS: Sure. I would like to have Robert Baer, Mark Crispin Miller, Katrina vanden Huevel, Roman Polanski, Christiane Amanpour, Shirin Neshat, there’s many people who interest me.
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-MAD: Rhetorically, what about deceased guests? What ancient historical guests would you like to interview on your show some day if a Time-Machine were available? Tutankhamun or Joan of Ark?
-ROLLINS: F. Scott Fitzgerald, Camus, Cold War era leaders from all sides. It would be interesting to hear what past presidents would have to say about what’s happening now. Seneca would be a crack-up, one could make a list that is endless. Twain, Lenny Bruce, etc.
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-MAD: While you’re a very down to earth person, and might consider yourself "normal" in your mode of expression, I sometimes think of you as being so real that you almost come across as abstract. You’ve kinda come full circle, yet you’re still emerged in that "Twilight Zone" ether of reality. Some of your work is both very profound, and very chaotic, bordering on the realms of entropy. A kick-ass merger of Van Gogh and E.C. Escher, do you consider yourself to be an "abstract thinker"?
-ROLLINS: I think the run and gun struggle I have with depression and some of the things I’ve seen and been through have dented me in some ways. I am not a bright person and not quick on the uptake but spending most of my time alone has lead me to some intensity and some clarity that I have been able to turn into something. Going without a lot of the normal things many people have in their lives like relationships, workplace drama, etc., I think these are sometimes distractions and people become reactant to those things and not to themselves. They are mad because they are getting bad cell service, they are now having a bad day. I understand of course, but when someone is mad about something like that, it makes me think of someone I met in an Army hospital with his legs and one eye gone and figure this person is having a really good day. I don’t know if this is thinking in the abstract. Perhaps one can save a lot of time and just come to the conclusion that I am playing with a partial deck. Here’s a pick up line to use for your next conquest: Religion to me, is silly, war is truth, peace is only a breather before the next war, there’s not enough profit to be made in equality so there will always be a deficit of it, those who wish it was like it used to be either didn’t know how bad it was back then, or most likely they were saying the same thing at that time, this is why there are no great leaps forward, but mostly steps sideways. Again, there’s no massive profit in solutions, peace, health, happiness, progress, just ask Dick Cheney. Let me know how you do.
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-MAD: Who are some of the musicians and authors who have really inspired you, and continue to inspire you to this day? Are their a few sources that really get your creative motor running?
-ROLLINS: Man Ray, Ian MacKaye, Thomas Wolfe, Camus, Alfred Jarry, Ryszard Kapuscinski, Iggy, Mark E Smith, Andre Breton, F Scott Fitzgerald, Hubert Selby Jr. There are a lot, actually. I get inspiration from many people and sources. I am fan of a lot of people, bands, etc. Ian would probably be the most as he’s been around, and I have known him since I was 12 or so and he gets better as he goes. He’s really quite something.
-MAD: This might sound like a "fanboy" question, but are you a reader of graphic novels and comic books? If so, what are some titles that you’ve always enjoyed? I only ask because of the Rollins Band involvement with "THE CROW" soundtrack, and your classic song "Ghost Rider". That, and your role as "Spider" in the movie "Johnny Mneumonic"; you almost come across like a super-hero in real life, or at least the alter ego to a super-hero.
-ROLLINS: I don’t read graphic novels although I bet there are some really great ones to be checked out. As far as the song and the role, one was an out-take and the other was just work. I work as much as I can. I would work in my sleep if I could.
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-MAD: You’ve done a great deal of work in the case of the WEST MEMPHIS THREE. I recently had the privilege of interviewing Burk Sauls who is the co-founder of the Free the WM3 Support Group (http://nwowatcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=6687.0 ). You released a WM3 support album called RISE ABOVE in 2002 to raise awareness about the case of Damien Echols, Jessie Misskelley and Jason Baldwin. Here’s an article at your website as well regarding the West Memphis Three: http://21361.com/site_2004/letters_archive/03_02.html
Being such a vocal supporter in this unbelievable mis-trial over the course of the past decade, do you still have hope that JUSTICE will be served in this case, and that FREEDOM will eventually prevail? What can the average person do, who is seeking a positive conclusion in the case of the WM3?
-ROLLINS: Until recently, I reconciled myself to thinking that the three of them, although innocent, would be spending the rest of their lives behind bars. I now think there could be a change in the wind. Anyone who wanted to help, could contribute via the website. Burk, now there’s a guy who uses more % of his brain than most. He’s pretty incredible.
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-MAD: You were recently reported as "a threat" to the National Security hotline during a tour in Australia, because you were reading JIHAD: THE RISE OF MILITANT ISLAM IN CENTRAL ASIA on a plane, when a passenger reported you for suspicious activity. A couple weeks back, a woman downed a flight bound for Dallas/Fort Worth because she lit a match after a bout of gas and flatulence (http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20061205/BLOG09/61205002 ). Likewise, they have just released a new piece of equipment which will allow airport screeners to X-ray under your clothing with more definition than ever (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36018 ). There are enough perverts in the Catholic Church without having to worry about perverts at the airport too. Do you think things have gotten a little insane with airport security since 911, and is this all part of a plan to take away more and more of our human rights and constitutional freedoms?
-ROLLINS: I don’t think the security at the airports means all that much when one considers the appalling lack of port security. If I were a bad guy, I wouldn’t even bother with an airplane now. I think the current administration has nothing but contempt for the Constitution. As far as those X-ray machines, I really don’t care what someone sees of me, I have nothing to hide and I really want to get on that plane. If security had done its job, the hijackers would have never been walking on the plane with box cutters, if in fact they did. That’s a whole other conversation though, isn’t it?
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-MAD: Speaking of 911, I wouldn’t try to pry into your personal opinions about how you think these events were carried out, but do you believe that the Bush Administration has used 911 to their advantage? You’ve been pretty vocal against this Administration in the past, do you think that they gained financially through the War with Iraq, and might this have been some of the motivation behind their political maneuvers? Moreso, are Bush and Cheney merely puppets in a larger scheme?
-ROLLINS: I don’t think there’s any doubt that the Bush administration used the September 11th attacks to grease the rails for their Iraq campaign. I also think they were going there anyway. I don’t know if I hold with all the “Loose Change” stuff, there sure are a lot of questions that haven’t been answered. That Bush and Cheney went in together and not under oath in front of the 9-11 Commission tells me all I need to know really. We’ll never get to the bottom of that one. Bush is a puppet, but not Cheney. There is so much about the whole thing that begs one to question. No autopsies on the victims, tapes shredded, debris whisked away from the scene and not tested, etc. Seems like there’s something someone doesn’t want us to know. I have no confidence that we will ever know much more than we know. It’s frustrating to have to be distracted by this stuff when you’re trying to live your life.
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-MAD: You’ve spent some time in the Middle East with the U.S.O. recently (http://www.uso.org/ ) . I know that this isn’t necessarily your area of expertise, but aside from obvious rebuilding, what do you feel is necessary for a peaceful Middle East resolution? Philosophically, how can this situation heal BEFORE it potentially builds up to a nuclear exchange?
-ROLLINS: There won’t be a nuclear exchange I bet. If I’m wrong, you won’t have the chance to say I told you so I guess. You want peace? I guess a lot of Shia and Israelis will have to die. Israel and Palestine will always rumble. Sunni and Shia will always rumble. None of the leaders are stupid but it seems to me that it’s hard to deal cogently without separation between church and state. Again, there’s no profit in peace. If Sunni and Shia got along, this thing will happen magically, if we just “stay the course”. Wait, Tony Snow says we don’t use that one anymore, if we just adapt to win, or whatever, an arms dealer would start another war between them to keep sales up. During the Katrina disaster, Fox News was talking about the upsides of investments in Home Depot. I also think that a completely unified Muslim world would threaten Pentagon Hawks to no end.
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-MAD: In terms of Israel’s role in the Middle East, should they try to go by the ideal of "Live and Let Live", or do you think the chasm is too far beyond repair? Can humanitarianism ever truly emerge, or will religion and politics always get in the way in these vies for power?
-ROLLINS: As much as I would to be wrong, I don’t think that one will ever resolve itself. It’s not like peace hasn’t been tried. It’s really a very sad situation.
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-MAD: The term, I’m sure you’re familiar with it, "The New World Order". Do you believe that there is some kind of a push by extremist "Illuminist" factions to bring about a one world government, religion, and banking system? Do you feel there is truth behind some "conspiracies"?
-ROLLINS: I’ve not spent much time on that really, so I couldn’t say.
-MAD: Despite your sometimes serious approach to things, you also have a very humorous persona. In a recent clip entitled LETTERS TO ANNE COULTER, you display some of your comedic abilities. Your approach is rather melancholy, yet it always has a lot of cynical truth which lays the foundation for your spoken word style. Speaking of "Letters to Anne Coulter", I read in a recent interview that you are a fan of letters written by famous authors. I haven’t really had a chance to dig into the meat of them yet, but H.P. Lovecraft is well known for his letter writing. Being a prolific author yourself, are you a fan of Lovecraft’s work, and do you write a lot of letters to friends and family, as well as your professional publications?
-ROLLINS: I try and read the correspondence of writers who interest me as it’s a way to get a different insight into the author. I think Arthur Rimbaud’s letters contain some of his best writing. The Fitzgerald-Hemingway correspondence is great, Flannery O’Conner was a great letter writer, Thomas Wolf’s letters are great as well as Henry Millers. I’m just glad this stuff is available.
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-MAD: The next part is a rather loaded question, and that is, what do you think is going to happen politically in 2008? Is a "Doomsday Scenario" possible? You almost come across like a post-apocalyptic prophet, do you feel the worst is yet to come? Also, what do you think of Gore’s "An Inconvenient Truth"? Are we on the verge of a "meltdown", so to speak?
-ROLLINS: 2008 is a very interesting discussion but I think it’s a little too early to tell. Hillary will run, McCain, Rudi, maybe Edwards, Gore, Kerry, etc. The right could very well ramp up the fear by 2008 to make middle America fall for it one more time. Hopefully the Dems will have the backbone to hold hearings and show people what’s been happening in their name. If it was president Rudi, that wouldn’t surprise me. I don’t think the Dems have a lock on the Oval Office by a long shot. It will take a lot of work and Dems don’t seem to do too well under the dirty smear campaigns of Rovian warfare. I think that global warming is a reality. If we get more melting at poles, the water will absorb more heat, which melts more ice, etc. I bet you will see real climatic change in your lifetime that cons will not be able to spin. That Brazil is on ethanol and we’re not just shows you that we weren’t even trying. There’s nothing we can’t do better, sooner and bigger than Brazil. Ethanol gets out of the Middle East at least partially and I think that threatens some business deals some people have going.
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-MAD: Mr. Rollins, this interview has been a dream come true , and it shows that you are a man of humbleness and integrity. I understand that you’re busy and wish you the absolute best of luck with what has already been an outstanding and outspoken career of entertainment and activism. In close, what’s the first thing that comes to mind that you’d like to leave the readers with today?
-ROLLINS: If you are trying to educate yourself on any of this stuff, I cannot overstate how much you must research, hear both sides, not believe any one person, etc. One can scan history to find a similar instance of any conflict that we are going through now, religious, economic, territorial, etc. The outcome of all battles comes down to a combination of operational, strategic and tactical advantage. The Russians went into Afghanistan looking to fight a certain way and didn’t get the war they wanted and had to rethink it as they got pounded in the Panshir Valley by the Mujahideen, who had a fraction of the firepower. America went to Iraq for reasons that are not exactly clear to me and helped facilitate a Sunni / Shia bloodbath. You can probably find similar events in history that would have saved a lot of lives. With what we’re doing to the planet, we are now in uncharted territory. This is the century where we either save or destroy the joint. I think people should read more, know more and do more.
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MAD is an administrator at Nwowatcher.com and co-host of the regular Revolution Radio program. Recent articles and interviews by MAD can be found HERE.
Henry Rollins is a Grammy award winning performer who has rocked stadiums and concerts around the world with his unique style, for multiple generations. He is also the author of over twenty acclaimed books, which can be found at http://21361.com/
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