I agree with you Lesley.
If I were posting his articles I would give the source and may mention that it was translated from the original language.
But, if I were going to steal someone else's work then I would make a bit of an effort to do a proof and re-write!
To me it just seems like he doesn't care if people know that he's a thief.
(maybe he should just put in a notice of "this article is stolen")

Jim

Well guys, I hate to say it, but you shouldn't really trust somebody anyway who bases 99.9% of their theories and material on the works of Zecharia Sitchin. When it comes to sneaky plagerism, you never know who is secretly stealing the works of others in order to promote their own agendas..

You have to be vigilant against this stuff, and in most cases, expose it as you see it.. The best thing for offenders to do would be to admit they have done it, before someone else starts accusing them of it..

That's one of the reasons I don't have my own book published yet. I want to be absolutely certain I haven't unknowingly used paragraphs and material from other authors without giving them proper credit..

Even with the best of intentions, this stuff can sometimes come back and bite you if you're not careful..


_________________
www.upsidebackwards.info

Thanks for keeping an eye on this Lesley. Someone needs to keep an eye on him. I didn't get many responses from authors who I wrote, but I did notice that a couple of the articles I kept bookmarked disappeared, so I think at least a couple of authors wrote him about it.


_________________
"There is no adequate defense, except stupidity, against the impact of a new idea."
Percy Williams Bridgman (1882-1961) U. S. physicist, Nobel Prize, 1946.

I have a blog!

Yes, plagiarism does seem rampant in cyberspace. On the other hand, I was somewhat flattered to find my essays posted without my permission. At least I was credited as being the author. A lot of work went into this, but I still don't know who did it.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_orionzone.htm#menu

Gary David


_________________
"As above, so below."

My website: http://www.theorionzone.com
My blog: http://theorionzone.blogspot.com
My myspace: http://www.myspace.com/garydavid

garydavid wrote:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_orionzone.htm#menu

Wow Gary, that is pretty amazing that someone would set up such a serious fan site without even talking to you first. It is definitely an upsetting trend in many ways, but I suppose so long as the guy is giving you full credit and not distorting what you say - all around it could also be gratifying to see your material gaining such recognition on its own.

Anyways, I always tell people to feel flattered when their writings get ripped off, as it means the ideas they put forward had enough salt to catch on. Even when one gets no credit at all, he should still feel happy that somebody found his notions worthy enough to steal. The ultimate desire of the True Philosopher should always be the spread of ideas, and not the recognition or the renumeration for it (though admittedly it's very hard to remember this when one has to make a living from it.)

But that's only a nice way for a ripped-off writer to console himself , and in no way justifies the anal-appertures who actually copy people's stuff without giving any credit, like Martel appears to be doing here. Good luck in nailing your guy too, he should at least be given a goold talking to about this.

All the best,
Sol

Gary, I found that site when I was doing some research last week, and since they had your name on everything I figured you must have been involved in setting it up. Just goes to show you never know!


_________________
"There is no adequate defense, except stupidity, against the impact of a new idea."
Percy Williams Bridgman (1882-1961) U. S. physicist, Nobel Prize, 1946.

I have a blog!

Here is the home page: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/

It is in Spanish so I got an instant translation from Babelfish. It's garbled but you get the idea of an alternative archive provided for the free exchange of ideas, etc.

This Site wishes to emulate to a Virtual Library, incorporating information found in the Internet, inherent to information, the news, treaties, studies, theories and possible conclusions made by an endless number of people and personages (university professors, professors, scientists, investigators, monks, politicians, philosophers, members of Intelligence, etc.), who have been dedicating themselves for some decades informing to I publish in general (and lately through the Internet) of "New Information" and a New way to see and to interpret History, Science, the Sociopolítica, Myths and Legend, Archaeology and Astronomy; to give greater Light mystical and "religious" to the information that we have received to traverse a dogmatic educative system, little clear often, and deformed and manipulated the others. to have the opportunity to inform to us on new chapters of the present knowledge as they are the Exopolítica, Astroarqueología, "Alternative" Medicine, Life in Our Universe and many but... All the content in this Site has been obtained in the Internet.

The articles in this Site are in Spanish (15% approx.) and Ingles (85% approx). Nothing of exposed here has been produced by us. Our roll is the one of simple notary publics and archivistas. We do not promote any "line" in individual, nor movement, indoctrinates, education or political thought. We are like all You, Finders of the Truth... Nothing but, nothing less. We suggested to them to begin by the Section "New features" in the superior Menu. In that Section we always incorporated weekly, of 3 to 6 articles of different thematic inherent from the Search... For several articles of but of 4100 (and in permanent increase) stored in this Site, to go to "Index Subjects/By Areas" or "Indice Subjects/By Alphabetical order" in the Superior Menu.


_________________
"As above, so below."

My website: http://www.theorionzone.com
My blog: http://theorionzone.blogspot.com
My myspace: http://www.myspace.com/garydavid

Hi all,

Interesting discussion.

You know this situation is a difficult one, because no one should be allowed to get away with deceiving the public . . . constantly - especially when being an author in a genre that requires our determination to get to the truth.

However, its a sad fact that in many cases, the victim is seen to be as "bad" as the perpetrator for actually complaining about something that is almost common practice in today's society. Also, in bringing it to public attention the whole thing is often seen as "sour grapes" aimed at the person who has fallen victim to literary piracy.

Also, we find that in some cases the plagiariser is often 'protected' by people who also have something to gain through association - especially if the plagiariser is a 'known name' and is using those people to further his own career and vice-versa. Someone coming along who has the proof to upset this "I scratch your back if you scratch mine" arrangement, will most certainly not be made welcome and this is when the fun really begins folks.

Best,
Gary


_________________
http://garyosborn.moonfruit.com/

Actually, I was thinking the other day that almost everything Martell does borders on plagiarism. Really all he has ever done is read Sitchin's books and repeat what is in them. As far as I know he hasn't done any of his own research or written anything original. I can't even remember him ever expressing an opinion that he didn't read in a Sitchin book.


_________________
http://thedebrisfield.blogspot.com
http://beyondthedial.wordpress.com

garydavid wrote:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/
"Our roll is the one of simple notary publics and archivistas."

Hehe, well, frankly I wish this was everybody's roll, that way more material could get preserved

Anyways, maybe all these plagiarizers are just trying to put some Rock into our Roll, so we don't get too complacent thinking everything is happy as pastries. No, there's still Evil out there to combat

And Gary O - hear hear that one of the most difficult things about this is making the victim's complaint heard, often due to various corporate inerests. Also, one of the influences of the Age of Conflict Resolution has been making each party to a conflict feel that part of the "fault" is his. Whereas it very often happens that one of the sides is in fact a great deal *more* wrong than the other. (And here people often site Hitler's Germany as a good example...)

(BTW, Lesley I agree with you about Martel not saying much of his own over the years except promote Sitchin and others - but as I recall, he has at least always given others credit before. What he's doing now is just too blatant.)

Cheers,
Sol

Hi Sol,

You write:

Quote:

And Gary O - hear hear that one of the most difficult things about this is making the victim's complaint heard, often due to various corporate inerests.

That's quite a dilemma isn't it?

Quote:

Also, one of the influences of the Age of Conflict Resolution has been making each party to a conflict feel that part of the "fault" is his. Whereas it very often happens that one of the sides is in fact a great deal *more* wrong than the other. (And here people often site Hitler's Germany as a good example...)

Yes, and that's an example I had in mind, but I didn't want to appear overdramatic.

Best,
Gary


_________________
http://garyosborn.moonfruit.com/

Anyone remember the Dan Brown trial? I never knew what to make of that, he writes a novel, based on ideas that he's read (or rather his wife did) on the internet. The novel sells millions and the people who had the ideas file for plagiarism.

To me if someone is successful, by plagiarising that doesn't weigh in for much in my view. Simply because they've not done it through hard work.

Take the front page of here for example, I could do what has been done on other sites, and copy lots of articles from elsewhere on the web. For a long time now the front page here has consisted of articles people have written and contributed to BoT themselves, they mean 1000 times more to me, and the site than copying a bunch of other articles from elsewhere on the net.

For a while I used to add 1 or 2 articles from elsewhere a day there, but always made sure the source link was the first thing people saw, some sites have it as a tiny link right at the end, which again to me is dishonest. It got to the stage where almost all of the sites I was visiting were all carrying the same bit of news, copied and pasted into their own sites. Thats when I decided to change how we did the front page.

I withdrew my membership recently from a site, because they were regularly linking to articles on sites who'd just copied and pasted the full article, instead of the sites where it originated. It would be like someone linking to Oddthings excellent article at jasons site , instead of to it here. That does OT no favours at all, helps the wrong person, more so because there was no credit to OT at all

I've rambled on a bit, but I'm often reminded of how my ideas for BoT and it's name etc were ripped off. they even nicked by nickname So I know all about this stuff, I'll finish with the quote which says it all..

"It is better to tread your own path, however humbly, than that of another, however successfully" - Bhagvad Gita


_________________
It is easier for mankind to destroy the light within, rather than the darkness around. Always face the light, that way the shadows will always be behind you.

Your integrity and that of your staff is the reason that Book-of-Thoth is now the primary site that I frequent. Even the average post reflects this integrety.

Hi Thoth,

People who use other people's material; steal their research as well as their insights, ideas and theories are basically very insecure and not confident about their own creativity - especially their writing abilities. The same people are in a rush to get to where they want to be and so they cut corners and avoid the really hard work to get there. However, one cannot really go the distance because whatever the person has acheived has really been through deceit and he or she will eventually be found out.

Being proud of what I do, and also naturally a creative person, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I used another person's work for my own gain. I would feel that there is something lacking in myself. Also I am not envious of other people's successes, but if they have got where they are by using others in this way and also compromising their futures - their path in life - in the process, then that is wrong and such people should be named and shamed.

Also the quote you give from the Bhagvad Gita applies to my own attitude to life - which is why I have said 'no' more times than I have said 'yes' to those who promise things but have ulterior motives. If I acheive something - anything - then at least it will be through the merit of my OWN work.

Best wishes,
Gary

Quote:

"It is better to tread your own path, however humbly, than that of another, however successfully" - Bhagvad Gita

_________________
http://garyosborn.moonfruit.com/

Quote:

Anyone remember the Dan Brown trial? I never knew what to make of that, he writes a novel, based on ideas that he's read (or rather his wife did) on the internet. The novel sells millions and the people who had the ideas file for plagiarism.

I have to admit that I never quite got that. Aren't a lot of fiction books based on real research or nonfiction events? OK, I read a lot of fiction so I know that they are. I am just not sure I accept taking non-fiction research and turning it into a fiction murder mystery is really plagiarism. Maybe it is because I have seen at least a couple of the guys who wrote Holy Blood, Holy Grail on the history channel explain how Dan Brown got it wrong and how their book is different. I have often wondered if Brown used those clips in court.


_________________
http://thedebrisfield.blogspot.com
http://beyondthedial.wordpress.com

Hi Lesley

Yeah, wasn't sure how that one would turn out, and making a novel from the ideas someone has already published as non fiction, isn't what I would class as real plagiarism. If Brown had written a non fiction book based on their ideas, then yes that would have been very wrong ie duplicating ideas,content etc.

That case smacked of "sour grapes" seeing that Brown made millions and no doubt Baigent and Lee wanting a percentage of that as their books weren't as popular as his. Although Brown could've at least referenced their work as an inspiration which would have been better.

GaryOsborn wrote:

The same people are in a rush to get to where they want to be and so they cut corners and avoid the really hard work to get there. However, one cannot really go the distance because whatever the person has acheived has really been through deceit and he or she will eventually be found out

That's true, but as you said before Gary, sometimes when it's explained that others have deceived, the accusation can be made that it's the complainer who is trouble causing, or wanting to spoil things for those who've deceived, even getting accused of jealousy or envy as you say, when the truth of the matter is just wanting to put the record straight, and point out an injustice.

I suppose an idea here or there, or a chapter in a book is ok, its when the majority of the ideas, or content is plagiarised that it becomes seriously wrong.

Poppy wrote:

Your integrity and that of your staff is the reason that Book-of-Thoth is now the primary site that I frequent. Even the average post reflects this integrety.

Thank you Poppy ! that's made my day, and it makes me feel much better about things. I do hope more are like you and see through the ones who severely lack this integrity


_________________
It is easier for mankind to destroy the light within, rather than the darkness around. Always face the light, that way the shadows will always be behind you.

Martell will be on the Kevin Smith show on Friday - http://kevinsmithshow.com/
I wonder if it is a call in show? Or maybe I could email Kevin Smith and have him ask Martell why his doesn't credit the authors of the articles on his site.


_________________
http://thedebrisfield.blogspot.com
http://beyondthedial.wordpress.com

Lesley wrote:

I wonder if it is a call in show? Or maybe I could email Kevin Smith and have him ask Martell why his doesn't credit the authors of the articles on his site.

Great idea Lesley...


_________________
"Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional."

I emailed Kevin and told him what Martell had been doing, he told me to call in during the show and ask Martell about it, so assuming I am around at that time I may do that.


_________________
http://thedebrisfield.blogspot.com
http://beyondthedial.wordpress.com

Well folks, this might not be the way to handle this, but now I'm officially tired of Jason Martell.

The article which he originally stole from me, and then took down after much ado, is now back up on one of his other sites(his blog this time). I'm not going to link to it, because I don't want to give him the traffic, but, trust me, it's there, with a different title and without my name again. If any of you kind BoT folks would like to e-mail Jason, tell him that Dustin sent you(he's ignored my e-mail on the subject), and you're tired of him ripping off other people articles.

Jason@XFacts.com


_________________
"There is no adequate defense, except stupidity, against the impact of a new idea."
Percy Williams Bridgman (1882-1961) U. S. physicist, Nobel Prize, 1946.

I have a blog!