And Gary O - hear hear that one of the most difficult things about this is making the victim's complaint heard, often due to various corporate inerests.
That's quite a dilemma isn't it?
Quote:
Also, one of the influences of the Age of Conflict Resolution has been making each party to a conflict feel that part of the "fault" is his. Whereas it very often happens that one of the sides is in fact a great deal *more* wrong than the other. (And here people often site Hitler's Germany as a good example...)
Yes, and that's an example I had in mind, but I didn't want to appear overdramatic.
Anyone remember the Dan Brown trial? I never knew what to make of that, he writes a novel, based on ideas that he's read (or rather his wife did) on the internet. The novel sells millions and the people who had the ideas file for plagiarism.
To me if someone is successful, by plagiarising that doesn't weigh in for much in my view. Simply because they've not done it through hard work.
Take the front page of here for example, I could do what has been done on other sites, and copy lots of articles from elsewhere on the web. For a long time now the front page here has consisted of articles people have written and contributed to BoT themselves, they mean 1000 times more to me, and the site than copying a bunch of other articles from elsewhere on the net.
For a while I used to add 1 or 2 articles from elsewhere a day there, but always made sure the source link was the first thing people saw, some sites have it as a tiny link right at the end, which again to me is dishonest. It got to the stage where almost all of the sites I was visiting were all carrying the same bit of news, copied and pasted into their own sites. Thats when I decided to change how we did the front page.
I withdrew my membership recently from a site, because they were regularly linking to articles on sites who'd just copied and pasted the full article, instead of the sites where it originated. It would be like someone linking to Oddthings excellent article at jasons site , instead of to it here. That does OT no favours at all, helps the wrong person, more so because there was no credit to OT at all
I've rambled on a bit, but I'm often reminded of how my ideas for BoT and it's name etc were ripped off. they even nicked by nickname So I know all about this stuff, I'll finish with the quote which says it all..
"It is better to tread your own path, however humbly, than that of another, however successfully" - Bhagvad Gita
_________________ The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand. - Frank Herbert
Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:59 am
Poppy Numen
Joined: May 22, 2006
Posts: 1675
Location: Massachusetts
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:58 am
Your integrity and that of your staff is the reason that Book-of-Thoth is now the primary site that I frequent. Even the average post reflects this integrety.
Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:58 am
GaryOsborn Seeker
Joined: Apr 18, 2006
Posts: 41
Location: London
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:03 am
Hi Thoth,
People who use other people's material; steal their research as well as their insights, ideas and theories are basically very insecure and not confident about their own creativity - especially their writing abilities. The same people are in a rush to get to where they want to be and so they cut corners and avoid the really hard work to get there. However, one cannot really go the distance because whatever the person has acheived has really been through deceit and he or she will eventually be found out.
Being proud of what I do, and also naturally a creative person, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I used another person's work for my own gain. I would feel that there is something lacking in myself. Also I am not envious of other people's successes, but if they have got where they are by using others in this way and also compromising their futures - their path in life - in the process, then that is wrong and such people should be named and shamed.
Also the quote you give from the Bhagvad Gita applies to my own attitude to life - which is why I have said 'no' more times than I have said 'yes' to those who promise things but have ulterior motives. If I acheive something - anything - then at least it will be through the merit of my OWN work.
Best wishes,
Gary
Quote:
"It is better to tread your own path, however humbly, than that of another, however successfully" - Bhagvad Gita
Anyone remember the Dan Brown trial? I never knew what to make of that, he writes a novel, based on ideas that he's read (or rather his wife did) on the internet. The novel sells millions and the people who had the ideas file for plagiarism.
I have to admit that I never quite got that. Aren't a lot of fiction books based on real research or nonfiction events? OK, I read a lot of fiction so I know that they are. I am just not sure I accept taking non-fiction research and turning it into a fiction murder mystery is really plagiarism. Maybe it is because I have seen at least a couple of the guys who wrote Holy Blood, Holy Grail on the history channel explain how Dan Brown got it wrong and how their book is different. I have often wondered if Brown used those clips in court.
Yeah, wasn't sure how that one would turn out, and making a novel from the ideas someone has already published as non fiction, isn't what I would class as real plagiarism. If Brown had written a non fiction book based on their ideas, then yes that would have been very wrong ie duplicating ideas,content etc.
That case smacked of "sour grapes" seeing that Brown made millions and no doubt Baigent and Lee wanting a percentage of that as their books weren't as popular as his. Although Brown could've at least referenced their work as an inspiration which would have been better.
GaryOsborn wrote:
The same people are in a rush to get to where they want to be and so they cut corners and avoid the really hard work to get there. However, one cannot really go the distance because whatever the person has acheived has really been through deceit and he or she will eventually be found out
That's true, but as you said before Gary, sometimes when it's explained that others have deceived, the accusation can be made that it's the complainer who is trouble causing, or wanting to spoil things for those who've deceived, even getting accused of jealousy or envy as you say, when the truth of the matter is just wanting to put the record straight, and point out an injustice.
I suppose an idea here or there, or a chapter in a book is ok, its when the majority of the ideas, or content is plagiarised that it becomes seriously wrong.
Poppy wrote:
Your integrity and that of your staff is the reason that Book-of-Thoth is now the primary site that I frequent. Even the average post reflects this integrety.
Thank you Poppy ! that's made my day, and it makes me feel much better about things. I do hope more are like you and see through the ones who severely lack this integrity
_________________ The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand. - Frank Herbert
Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:55 pm
Lesley Pyramid Level I
Joined: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 79
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:52 am
Martell will be on the Kevin Smith show on Friday - http://kevinsmithshow.com/
I wonder if it is a call in show? Or maybe I could email Kevin Smith and have him ask Martell why his doesn't credit the authors of the articles on his site.
Joined: Aug 10, 2006
Posts: 7068
Location: North Yorkshire UK
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:51 am
Lesley wrote:
I wonder if it is a call in show? Or maybe I could email Kevin Smith and have him ask Martell why his doesn't credit the authors of the articles on his site.
Great idea Lesley...
_________________ "Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional."
Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:51 am
Lesley Pyramid Level I
Joined: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 79
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:58 am
I emailed Kevin and told him what Martell had been doing, he told me to call in during the show and ask Martell about it, so assuming I am around at that time I may do that.
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
Posts: 4681
Location: Florida
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:17 pm
Well folks, this might not be the way to handle this, but now I'm officially tired of Jason Martell.
The article which he originally stole from me, and then took down after much ado, is now back up on one of his other sites(his blog this time). I'm not going to link to it, because I don't want to give him the traffic, but, trust me, it's there, with a different title and without my name again. If any of you kind BoT folks would like to e-mail Jason, tell him that Dustin sent you(he's ignored my e-mail on the subject), and you're tired of him ripping off other people articles.
_________________ "There is no adequate defense, except stupidity, against the impact of a new idea."
Percy Williams Bridgman (1882-1961) U. S. physicist, Nobel Prize, 1946.
Joined: Aug 10, 2006
Posts: 7068
Location: North Yorkshire UK
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:42 pm
E-mail sent OT...
Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:42 pm
OddThings Empyrean
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
Posts: 4681
Location: Florida
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:01 pm
The power of the internet folks. A few of you copied e-mails which you sent to Jason(and thank you too Momma!), and I have received this from Jason a few minutes ago:
Quote:
Dude, You are an idiot. Jason Martell Xfacts.com
_________________ "There is no adequate defense, except stupidity, against the impact of a new idea."
Percy Williams Bridgman (1882-1961) U. S. physicist, Nobel Prize, 1946.
Joined: Jun 02, 2005
Posts: 2175
Location: Florida
Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:44 pm
Yep me too. Don't mess with our Dustin!
kat
_________________ "Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."
Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:44 pm
OddThings Empyrean
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
Posts: 4681
Location: Florida
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:07 am
Thanks katsmeow! At least my little campaign has gotten his attention. I got a nasty e-mail from him, which I won't post, and the host of his blog has been contacted and they're taking a look at it. I am not one to go after people for anything they do, but I hope this ends up with something "on the record" about him so that he thinks twice next time.
_________________ "There is no adequate defense, except stupidity, against the impact of a new idea."
Percy Williams Bridgman (1882-1961) U. S. physicist, Nobel Prize, 1946.
Joined: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1258
Location: If you find me, then we'll both know!
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:33 am
Email sent.
_________________ The problem with communication, is the illusion that it has been accomplished.- George Benard Shaw
"I inhaled frequently ... that was the point" - Barak Obama
Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:33 am
TrentCoole Moderator
Joined: Nov 20, 2005
Posts: 3740
Location: Bonavista, NL
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:41 am
Done & done!
_________________ Be Positive, NOW! Angus Rules!
Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:41 am
TrentCoole Moderator
Joined: Nov 20, 2005
Posts: 3740
Location: Bonavista, NL
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:48 am
Good morning folks. OT, I got up to a reply:
"Yeah, he is pretty lame for spreading false info...
This guy is lika a youngster. He reminds me of a saying from elementary school.
... Your comment bounces off me & sticks to you...
_________________ Be Positive, NOW! Angus Rules!
Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:48 am
Lesley Pyramid Level I
Joined: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 79
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:18 pm
Besides Dustin contacting his blog server and I have my doubts that they will do much of anything except maybe make him take down the article, there must be other things we can do. I emailed Kevin Smith who is having him on tonight, but I think I will also email George Noory along with other people who help with his "career." These people should know that he is a fraud and I think if enough of us let them know we could have some sort of effect. What other shows does he go on, Jerry Pippin maybe? He must stop stealing other people's work and getting away with it. He shouldn't profit off the hard work of others. Sitchin lets him, so I guess that is OK, but most others I doubt gave their permission. I am going to post this information at other message boards I belong to too.
Sure, I may not be a great writer, but at least my stuff is my own and I don't think Martell can say the same.
I've just gotten a response from Jason saying "all we have to do is let him know, and he'll remove it" my response was
"Point is Jason, you shouldn't be taking them to begin with, it's not up to us to keep checking to see if you've stolen articles, it's down to you to make sure that it's ok to use the article to begin with, or at the very least respect the articles origin and author. You've annoyed a lot of people lately, if I were you I'd stop before things get much worse."
_________________ The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand. - Frank Herbert
Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:50 pm
katsmeow Ambrosian
Joined: Jun 02, 2005
Posts: 2175
Location: Florida
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:05 pm
Yeah THoTH...I got a response to my email last night something like he had no idea what I was talking about...I find that a bit disingenous to put it nicely. :/
_________________ "Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."
Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:05 pm
Sc0sh Prodigy
Joined: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1258
Location: If you find me, then we'll both know!
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:36 pm
I didn't get a reply to mine.
I only suggested that he google the following:
plagiarizer jason martell
Last night when I googled it, this thread came up in the top two (I swear!)
Now it's just a bunch of mumbo jumbo
edit:
still comes up if you google plagiarize jason martell
so, um N/M
_________________ The problem with communication, is the illusion that it has been accomplished.- George Benard Shaw
"I inhaled frequently ... that was the point" - Barak Obama
Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:36 pm
Momma BoT's Momma
Joined: Aug 10, 2006
Posts: 7068
Location: North Yorkshire UK
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:10 pm
No reply to mine either......
_________________ "Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional."
Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:10 pm
Kira First Lady of Book-of-THoTH
Joined: Dec 21, 2003
Posts: 14327
Location: Suburb of area 51
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:42 pm
Oooo, off to e mail!
We'll keep it up there Reb.
Don't worry OT I'll be nice and politically correct.
Jason Martell, shame on you. Dustin is NOT an idiot! You know nothing of which you speak.
Dustin is the most honest person I've ever had the pleasure to know and has worked hard on his articles. No one should be able to just take them and post as there own. It's just WRONG!
Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:42 pm
jimwill Moderator
Joined: Dec 09, 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: S.E. Oklahoma
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:39 pm
Jason Martell is also supposed to be on Coast to Coast on Wednesday 6 December.
If you listen to C2C maybe you can call in and ask him about stealing articles from the Book-of-Thoth.
I know he also steals elsewhere, but maybe we can convince him to leave our authors alone! If he gets hassled by BoT members every time he has a live interview then perhaps he'll realize he does not want to steal from here.
Jim
Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:39 pm
THoTH Da Boss
Joined: Dec 21, 2003
Posts: 9024
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:48 pm
He won't be stealing from here anymore, or anything from OT, I've had his word on that. He was abusive and threatening however but ahh so what, he seems to think it's just a couple of people that are objecting.
I'm baffled with all of this, apologies and an assurance it won't be repeated would be the best way forward, not to insult or make veiled threats. He's lost any respect I ever had for him anyway.
_________________ The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand. - Frank Herbert
Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:48 pm
Sc0sh Prodigy
Joined: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1258
Location: If you find me, then we'll both know!
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:01 pm
I don't see what the big deal is....
Why doesn't he just include the name of the author and a link from where the piece originates? Seems like a tiny bit of typing and forethought would've saved him a world of grief.
I'm absolutely not an author and I can only imagine how it feels to not be given proper credit. I've known Oddley for awhile now. I have tons of respect for him and I'm proud to call him my friend. Sending a little email was the very least I could do for him in this situation.
To the others that have been victims of this guy, I'm truly sorry for you.
_________________ The problem with communication, is the illusion that it has been accomplished.- George Benard Shaw
"I inhaled frequently ... that was the point" - Barak Obama
Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:01 pm
Kira First Lady of Book-of-THoTH
Joined: Dec 21, 2003
Posts: 14327
Location: Suburb of area 51
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:26 pm
I hope he stays away from OT's material and hope the same for the others he's taken. Truely hope it ends here.
No reply yet, not expecting one.
Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:26 pm
THoTH Da Boss
Joined: Dec 21, 2003
Posts: 9024
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:18 pm
It looks like the message has sunk in at last, but stay frosty.
_________________ The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand. - Frank Herbert
Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:18 pm
Lesley Pyramid Level I
Joined: Nov 12, 2006
Posts: 79
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:30 am
I am going to email Noory about Martell and when they have the show listed on the streamlink message boards I will also put a post there about him.
This guy is lika a youngster. He reminds me of a saying from elementary school.
... Your comment bounces off me & sticks to you...
He replied petty quickly to mine. I used RIP-OFF as the subject.
"Dustin sent me over to say you should quit ripping off other people's work. Use your own brainpower, lol, for a change?"
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they even nicked by nickname 
So I know all about this stuff, I'll finish with the quote which says it all.. 
that's made my day, and it makes me feel much better about things. I do hope more are like you and see through the ones who severely lack this integrity 
