Hi Trica ,
And yes I agree with you and maybe a difference in culture as well,
sometimes I forget that I am writing a view that others all around the world will read, and what has one meaning in one country can mean something totally different to another’s culture and country. imo

Oh. I'm sorry Kdog's gone.

My response, Keeper, was to what I read as criticism on your part. I apologize for responding in kind.

I agree, Tricia, to all you said regarding the difference between prayer and spell/energy work. Couldn't have put it better!
z


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From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity.
- Odd Thomas

I recall a section in Marion Weinstein's Positive Magic that applies here. IIRC, saying a spell, or "words of power," as she calls them, requires a few things from the practitioner. First of all, the work is done for the good of all and according to the free will of all. Next, one must act in accordance. In other words, one doesn't just speak these words into the ether, one must also act in accordance in one's daily life on the Earth Plane. To give a simplistic example, if you say a spell for peace, you mustn't go around being belligerent and behaving in a manner contrary to the essence of your spell. Also, one is considered to be a microcosm of the powers in the Universe: we are considered to be Goddess and God incarnate.

And she says that, as Goddess and God, by acting in accordance we become co-creators of this "magic," this transformation we are trying to bring about. When one prays, one is passively entreating a power greater than oneself to make something happen. But when one casts a spell or performs these words of power, one is directly taking part in the creation of that something. A subtle but serious difference.

I highly recommend her book Positive Magic, she explains it all far better than I.


edited to correct book title


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There are monsters, there are angels,
there's a peacefulness and a rage inside us all.
There's sugar, there is salt,
there's ice and there is fire in every single heart.
There are monsters, there are angels.

That about sums it up Nebula...sounds like a great book...must look it up...

Wow - there are a lot of misconceptions about Wicca here. I'm a Dianic Witch which is different from classical Wicca, but a lot of what passes for Wicca these days is Western Magick that still retains patriarchal bias. Like the idea that we worship many "gods." First and foremost, Wicca or Wicce (the proper spelling is Wicce, but the other has been more widely used) is the worship fo the Great Mother Goddess. Some traditions include a male consort of the Goddess, but when they start talking duality, they have abandoned Wicce fallen back on their patriarchal indoctrination.

Dianic Wicce, which I practice is both monotheastic, believing in One Goddess, and polytheistic because we consider all the various deities throughout the world to be facets of the Divine Source that is Goddess. We express this in the kenning "All gods are Goddesses and all Goddesses are one Goddess." We believe that the Goddess is the living Universe that became aware of Herself and gave birth to existence via parthenogenesis. Everything that is, was, has been, could be or will be co-exists within Her living body.

When people credit Gardner with inventing Wicce I absolutely want to scream. There are families that have worshiped the Goddess in an unbroken line since before the violent imposition of patriarchy. To dismiss it as a modern invention denigrates the generations of Witches and Priestesses that have been tortured and killed over the last 10,000 years. Gardner created a particular set of rituals and called it Wicca which popularized the term, but every culture on this planet has begun with worship of the Great Mother. It is the natural condition for humans to honor our connection to Nature. The problems we have in the world right now are the direct result of trying to live as if we are apart from Nature. It can't be done without creating illness and suffering.

A spell is not a prayer. A prayer is a conversation between the self and the Goddess or some facet of Her. A spell is a specific ritual that combines one's energy with natural forces or elements to effect a desired result. It may or may not include props like herbs or candles - it is primarily a conscious manipulation of the Quantum Field to achieve a specific goal. Casting is a skill - prayer is an activity.

I've been nominally Wiccan for 27 years and an High Priestess for 17. I'm always happy to answer questions if anyone has any.

Peace~



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People don't look at shadows and see monsters - they look at monsters and see shadows.

Thanks for the information, Morgaine. It was very informative to me. Fell in line more with what I "felt inside".

Never invite me to ask questions. I'll make a fast appointment for chat and ask questions until your ear falls off.

dolphin


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per ardua ad astra

Hi Morgaine! Thank you for all the info you've provided here.

I'm curious if you've read any of Marion Weinstein's books, and if so, what you think of them.

Also, have you happened to read Barbara Walker's Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, or her Tarot book?


_________________
There are monsters, there are angels,
there's a peacefulness and a rage inside us all.
There's sugar, there is salt,
there's ice and there is fire in every single heart.
There are monsters, there are angels.

Hi, Dolphin and Nebula -

Glad you found something of use. Yes, I'm familiar with Weinstein's work - as a matter of fact, Positive Magic is one of the books I start my students off with. The Egyptology in it is generally incorrect and she errs on the side of caution, but the basic premise will keep a novice from hurting themselves or anyone else and that's the whole point when someone is just learning. I've seen so many people create negative karma by not observing the Law of Return that I'd prefer they be too cautious than throw caution to the wind and suffer the consequences. I always encourage students to spend time in water and really think about it to understand energy. If we view the Goddess as a field of energy that acts like water, we understand how our actions move outward and then come back to us - you can't splash someone else without getting wet yourself, and every ripple in the water has an effect on everything else in it in a unifying way.

Barbara Walker is an indispensable source - The Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets is always within reach. As with most Goddess resources, Walker gets a lot of negative publicity, but I find her work to be perfectly solid and immensely insightful.

I take it you're familiar with their work?


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People don't look at shadows and see monsters - they look at monsters and see shadows.

I read Positive Magic and found it to be quite useful. As you said, I liked the basic premise of the book. It provides a good roadmap for someone starting out. I've also read Earth Magic and found it to be interesting but not quite as useful to me.

Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets kind of blew my mind at the time, because I actually read it straight through, cover-to-cover. It kind of cemented in place the changes that Positive Magic had initiated, and it gave me quite a different world view than I'd had before reading it. It helped make so much sense of the world that I live in. I'd never come across a single book that did that before.

While I have her Tarot book, I don't think it's "the definitive" Tarot book available; at least, not for me, personally. She has a lot of good insights to discuss in that book, but I like it for the insights in general and not for the Tarot-specific parts. I've also seen her Tarot deck and it simply does not speak to me at all. However, I don't think her Tarot stuff is her strong point. I enjoyed the Encyclopedia so much and it made such an impression on me that I will always admire her work (especially considering how much research she has done).

Positive Magic and the Walker Encyclopedia are two books I would most recommend to people interested in these sorts of topics.


_________________
There are monsters, there are angels,
there's a peacefulness and a rage inside us all.
There's sugar, there is salt,
there's ice and there is fire in every single heart.
There are monsters, there are angels.

I enjoyed your explanation of Wicce/Wicca....what I found for myself, was that along my path of spiritual learning 'opportunities', over the years, I learned I was actually following the intent of Wicca without even knowing it! HA!

nebula wrote:

Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets kind of blew my mind at the time, because I actually read it straight through, cover-to-cover. It kind of cemented in place the changes that Positive Magic had initiated, and it gave me quite a different world view than I'd had before reading it. It helped make so much sense of the world that I live in. I'd never come across a single book that did that before
--snip--
Positive Magic and the Walker Encyclopedia are two books I would most recommend to people interested in these sorts of topics.

Wow - cover to cover! That's quite an accomplishment! I've read the whole thing, but in bits and pieces over many years. It's one I go back to over and over. I've been thinking about having it converted to .pdf so it's searchable and I can use it on line. I did that with The First Sex because I'm writing a book about it, and that has been so useful, I wish I could do it with all my books, ha ha! The Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secriets is searchable on Google Books, but you still can't cut and paste text. I wish they would change that. I know there are copyright concerns but the information should be usable, I feel.


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People don't look at shadows and see monsters - they look at monsters and see shadows.

siriusadult wrote:

I enjoyed your explanation of Wicce/Wicca....what I found for myself, was that along my path of spiritual learning 'opportunities', over the years, I learned I was actually following the intent of Wicca without even knowing it! HA!

You know, that happens a lot - people will think they've invented their own religion and then they encounter Wicce and realize there was a name for what they were thinking all along. I love hearing those stories because it speaks to the pragmatic nature of Wicce - it's mostly common sense, an open mind and a connection to Nature.

Bright blessings~


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People don't look at shadows and see monsters - they look at monsters and see shadows.