I will iterate this one more time:

You folks should very, very seriously consider Micheal Newton's book 'journey of souls'. It does cover everything we've just touched on.

lol cruiser. I guess the simplest way to answer the "how do you know" question is to say that the one always present and unmistakable sign is, you die. Try googling the term "shamanic death"

Keep working on it prophmaji. Sooner or later you'll get past those human needs and contexts and get onto the real thing.




Tiger


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"Logic and reason are as limited as faith. All three collapse under their own rules of exclusivity in the end, they simply do so at different rates."

I have been. I came back to this circle to finish some tasks. Then on to the really fun stuff again.

I am immersed in the context so when the time comes, the shape of the work and the pitch...causes the curve ball to have just the right spin. A lifetime..to complete just the right nudge.

The 'bridge', the split, is difficult. I'll be going back to it soon. Keeping it coherent for others is the real trick. Anticipating every word, every sentence, every move, every thing that is to come to pass, it makes folks a bit freaky. I have a difficult time keeping track of linear time. Or the changes that chance brings to the outlay of the future.

I allowed myself to step away from it about 5 years back, which took nearly a year to complete...and the old human fears part, once again, attempts to re-establish itself. Thankfully the pathway already exists, and I can find my way back. Soon enough. once I'm there, the balance point is simple enough. The sheer joy of it helps keep it stable. I know I just contradicted myself, but , as usual...that's the way it goes on that one! It's difficult from here, it's easy from there.

It's like addressing the idea of intellect from the core or hindbrain up..and then the frontal cortex is no longer the seeming driver, but only the public face of the rider. There is an entirely different set of considerations, controls and mechanisms of awareness, recognition, and existence, all tied together, as if the standard human idea of intellect is merely a sheen on the core drive point.

Basically, I put the kid in charge of the public face for awhile, again.

Huh... "fun stuff" eh? Like I said, keep working on it, sooner or later you'll see past bounds of that box




Tiger


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"Logic and reason are as limited as faith. All three collapse under their own rules of exclusivity in the end, they simply do so at different rates."

WhiteTiger wrote:

lol cruiser. I guess the simplest way to answer the "how do you know" question is to say that the one always present and unmistakable sign is, you die. Try googling the term "shamanic death"

Tiger

Ah, yes. That's a definite sign and nothing is ever the same as it was.

Prophmaji, I wish you well on your journey.


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"Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."

WT wrote:

For the most part, in places like the US, the victims of the shamanic process end up sleeping in refrigerator boxes or locked away somewhere under medication.
-------------- ---------

I'd have to agree w/you there. Did some reading on shamanic death...... thanks for the direction.


cruiser

WhiteTiger wrote:

For the lucky ones who happen to live in a society with some remaining "primitive" traditions, it would be by cultural context.

For those unfortunates in "advanced" societies such as here in the US where judeo-christian values and technical materialism have all but destroyed the older traditions it's a real crap shoot.

There is no touchstone in this culture that can be the anchor for the mind, and in fact most of the symptoms are such that anyone seeking help in understanding what is happening to them is virtually certain to be fitted for a lace-up canvas sport jacket unless they have wit enough to conceal that they are pink monkeys in a cage full of brown ones.

Some get an inkling of what is happening to them and rush about trying on assorted traditions that claim to be available, but that is something of a waste of time. The anchoring point needs to be one that is so well suited to the cultural standards of the victim that the costs are acceptable; otherwise the tacked on system is just an added burden.

For the most part, in places like the US, the victims of the shamanic process end up sleeping in refrigerator boxes or locked away somewhere under medication.

Heh. The answer to your simple question is quite complex and the ramble above is just a bare bones outline




Tiger

I am interested WT.

How did YOU deal with it. You obviously aren't locked up and probably aren't sleping in a fridge.


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When everything's ambiguous
Except the taste of blood... Bruce Cockburn

Initially by concealing the situation from all those around me who would be in a position to start the chain of events that would have ended with me locked up. During that period the most common single thing for me to say to the very very few I could safely talk to was "I don't want to BE this!".

In the long run, by assessing and understanding the cost, and making the decision to accept it. Who I was for those first decades is as dead as JFK




Tiger


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"Logic and reason are as limited as faith. All three collapse under their own rules of exclusivity in the end, they simply do so at different rates."

That sounds fairly full on to say the least.

On reading this thread I can say that I certainly have an affinity with the feelings. I have never felt anything as intense as illness but I always long for nature.

There are particular places around my area that I have to visit at least every year and if I haven't been the urge gets quite strong and I just get in the car and go. 2 are headlands and the other two are swimming holes. One of these pools is particularly stunning as it is close to a circle with high rock walls (at least 40 ft) surrounding at leat 300 degress.

There are also aboriginal (Australian) pestal imprints in the rock where they used to grind up cycad seeds. Majical place.

Anyway...not sure where I am going but that is what I have to share.

Cheers


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When everything's ambiguous
Except the taste of blood... Bruce Cockburn

WhiteTiger wrote:

Initially by concealing the situation from all those around me who would be in a position to start the chain of events that would have ended with me locked up. During that period the most common single thing for me to say to the very very few I could safely talk to was "I don't want to BE this!".

In the long run, by assessing and understanding the cost, and making the decision to accept it. Who I was for those first decades is as dead as JFK




Tiger

It was largely the same for me. The turning point came when I found myself lying on the bathroom floor, curled up, two hours late for work..and within ten minutes or less, of calling the folks who would have taken me away to the funny farm for a rest. Thankfully, I had not the wits to even handle a phone, at that time. I was at the point for months, where I could not identify people by name,as I 'felt' them,as a young child would. I was re-forming on the most base level. I knew what I was doing, I willfully initiated the entire process. I was incapable of, at that time, of emotionally holding myself together for periods longer than 5-10 minutes, and I was sleeping no more than 1.5 hours a night, for well over 18 months. I had will fully regressed myself to a small child..and then went backward into the womb. That's when it really starts to flow. I had found the way in..and purposely ran straight into it, both knowing the cost would be great, but not knowing what it was.

It was the best time of my life, with regards to new things and adventure combined with knowledge revealed..and it was the worst time of my life. It was awful, it was awesome. I'd do it again in a heartbeat, but the intensity certainly requires a stout mind and body...and the will to pass through it. But not too fast. I slowed it down, to digest as much as possible.

I pulled myself together and went to work, that day. At that time, I was going through such change..that even my own dog barely recognized me. The psychic connection to my pup also went through the roof, as my own capacities expanded exponentially. My time sense was very screwed, with respect to linear time and visions, both past and future..and sometimes present....

Walking around in a adult body..that is intensely psychic and aware, with a non linear time sense and being of a two week old child in emotional construction for the most part..and attempting to communicate effectively at that time with others, is a tricky thing indeed. I was also in a sales/technical job at the time, dealing with the public all day, no less. What a trip for them to deal with me! And vise-versa...

I'd tell people (that I knew) that I was a bit screwed up and stuck in this 'situation'..and they'd not believe me, so I'd pull a handful of coins from my pocket and say 'heads'..toss them all on the floor..and 90%+ would come up heads. Like that. All day. Whatever I wanted to do, or see, it was right there. But the price of knowing and seeing, is not a small one......for the average mind.

It took me quite awhile to sort it out. As it would anyone.

Don't know how I missed this thread but I'm sure grateful to pureflow for starting it, and grateful to all who have contributed.

'Shaman' isn't a term I use often; there are too many conflicting definitions for it to be understood as a simple statement of who I am... but that is my life, and I'm happy to have found some information here that's helped clarify some things for me.

Thank you all; I hope the discussion continues!
zeph


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From time to time, I do consider that I might be mad. Like any self-respecting lunatic, however, I am always quick to dismiss any doubts about my sanity.
- Odd Thomas