The Book Of THoTH

I don't consider myself "in the field" ... I don't do (what you might consider) any serious research. I read what interests me. Sometimes I'm in a whimsical mood, and I read some interesting stories in the "it happened to me" board. What is important to me now- isn't what was important to me- say ... last year. I've never been abducted (that I am aware of) so, my passion might be a bit underwhelming in comparison to yours. In that regard, I don't let the tales of whimsy bother me.



I don't seek answers anymore - because I came to the realization that there really aren't any "one size fits all" answers. The search for answers left me tired .. took all
the fun right out of it



Hoaxing isn't very nice I still read it Is it okay if I discern for myself (perhaps by engaging the poster) if it's a hoax? Or must I take the majority opinion and follow suit?



I love having my imagination fed !! What can I say ...

Thanks, Rebel Angel. My pal Tim Binnall (not name dropping, just clarifying that he's not one of the radio show hosts I was referring to) believes that we'll never get to the truth and so he's more interested in the personalities of the field. What makes people tick, I guess. He won't promote known liars but he has no problem with crazy "out there" people. Sounds kinda like the place you're coming from.

So here's a question for you (and Tim): If you eventually grow bored with the subject and turn it off, will it have ever mattered in the first place? Or is it like pop music - kinda cool in the moment but a year from now it'll be irrelevant?

Some of my best friends are crazy "out there" people, so you've lumped me in good company so I'm cool with that



To address your question- I'll say what I said above, what was important to me last year isn't important to me now. Some things are just not worth expending the energy on. I've never been bored a single moment in my life. I've been disenchanted with the subject matter. (For example, I don't pay much attention to photographic evidence anymore...for obvious reasons) When I have my moments or months of disenchantment, I don't put myself in situations that would frustrate me. i.e. I don't visit BoT or other websites that deal with the subject matter. I wouldn't watch a TV show about it. I wouldn't read any books about it. I've got this way of turning off ... works well for me.

But, no - my mild passion for the unknown has been with me since I can remember, and I doubt that I would forsake it like umm disco ( I kinda like pop music ) Would it be irrelevant? Nope, not to me.

I've already decided it's the coolest question ever: "*knock*knock* is anybody out there?" Hope I'm alive for the "I told ya so'z" on that one ... Maybe that's when all the crazies, hoaxers, (you know anyone that would take the time to hoax, probably has a passion for the subject, right?) researchers will come together. When they can all stand together and tell the world they were right

Umm, you are joking right?

"Heck, even ET made a phone with an umbrella and a Speak-N-Spell." ...how damn clever is he?!
Of-course there are times I think "fruitcake warning" but I'm not going to stress about it After all when I was in highschool a friend told me she was a witch...at the time I'd not heard of such a thing outside of "Bewitched" & "Hansel & Grettel" so I concluded that she was lying. That was fairly closed minded of me considering I had been speaking with the "dead" my whole life. 10yrs. after that I found out what "witch" meant and became interested in that myself.

As to your film valiens I owe you an appology. The whole fake girlfriend thing kind of took over in my memory (I so don't get why you did that) also I watched it with my ex who is the sceptic of all sceptics, so I was probably not as in the experience or paying as much attention as I could have. It's funny, near the beginning of it you were questioning how to judge others stories, similar to here.
I'm most of the way through watching it again...yes I have again braved the Michael Jackson infested room & the bizarre bath meeting!! Your pose was very Venusesque there, btw.

Well, when dealing with a long standing yet still unresolved unknown, it's obvious that some key element or elements have been excluded from consideration... were that not so, resolution would have been arrived at previously. Since the topic itself is an unknown, then the requisite elements to be included in the study must remain open to have any chance of avoiding the study errors that have so far left the question unresolved.

Any other approach leaves researchers wide open to the "no, I won't look through your telescope" error of prejudice.



Well, there is where we differ. I don't presume to know about the unknown in advance. With the elements and forces at work in the unknown category, any exclusion of any material that has an obvious connection to the area of study is simple bias, imo. It's about equivalent to someone trying to figure the first internal combustion engine they've ever been exposed to, but deciding in advance that the people talking about gasoline and fire are full of crap and hoaxing things. The key point remains we don't know.

For all we know those seeming psychological side issues of hoaxing and fantasy yarns may hold vital clues to the very nature of the phenomenon itself.



Of course we judge... but that is just our defense mechanisms at work, now isn't it? The question is whether we judge accurately, which is obviously not the case with the ufo topic or it would have been resolved long since, given the amount of effort put into it. We're missing something, and the odds are good that what we are missing that would pull the pieces together is something(s) in plain sight but hidden by the assumptions of faith and bias errors of those doing the studies.



Tiger

I meet as many contactees, abductees and starseed types of people as I can. I want to talk with people about literal first hand experiences, then compare their experiences with my own in order to clarify.

Now I abhor the truely universal degrading and evil effects that lies have upon the lifeforce which animates everything, but I would not kill persons for lieing about the important [even though their lies have caused much loss and even death]. If I could I would remove the corruption from their existence but I have not the reach for this. For me it is all about the deeper truth of living which through right application and right reason reduces the pain, suffering and injustices caused by evil.

Totally agree, this whole area (field?), has so many angles to it, that to selectively reject may indeed be missing part of the picture. I put together an article about UFO psychology http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article1771.html, in that I discussed the role belief plays. What concerns me the most is those who try to state what is acceptable, and that which is not. For sure, there'll always be fringe elements, even then that is down to the person as to whether they want to incorporate that into their take on the subject. If I had been heard discussing UFOs by those medical staff, what was to stop them saying I was crazy, or had problems? What is the difference between that and finger pointing at those you consider crazy Jeremy?

It seems from the posts so far, that you think if we don't finger point, we're all accepting whatever is put our way as the truth, or being genuine. If you take the time to read the threads here, you'll see that is not the case, and far from it in fact. That's the whole purpose of debate. If I see a picture of a UFO and think it is actually a bird in motion, I'll say so. The difference being, I won't attempt to force that opinion on people, or start drawing lines in the sand as to what we should consider acceptable, and that which we shouldn't. That choice is always personal, and as Tiger says, when you're dealing with the unknown as a subject, it would be foolish to dismiss arbitrarily.

The timelord poster readily admits he could be crazy, and that he doesn't know for sure what is going on, but I still noticed there was some ridiculing in that thread as if he'd stated outright that he was. He didn't, he just wanted to relate his experiences, and is no doubt disappointed at the sneers. There's some mocking of that in this thread also, Is he a timelord? I don't think he is, but I was still interested in reading what he had to say, because there's a good chance he's experiencing something he can't rationalise to himself and is describing it in terms only he knows how. Yet he's been mocked in there, and no doubt instantly disregarded by some. What I am saying is, that he obviously has had a set of odd experiences, surely those are worth listening to rather than just making snap judgements based on the title of his thread. The only reason I haven't pulled anyone up about making fun, was he said that he thought that was ok. But from what I can see that's not how he's being portrayed here.

A friend of mine dismisses things out of hand, has a very black and white view of everything. Most of us in this "field" know full well that things aren't black and white, least of all when it comes to UFOs and abduction reports. Yet what I see emerging from some that have a voice to the public, is a condemnation of others also involved in this field, occasionally justified, but largely not, and mainly because of ego. Richard Hall, a man I had a lot of respect for, because of the amount of time he's been investigating, posted something scathing when I asked for ideas for a new UFO DVD. That's all I did "what do people think would make a good UFO documentary, I am hoping to make one" and the response was "oh great another UFO DVD, with the same old stuff, same old people, same old rubbish" or words to that effect. Point of his comment was what? without being aware what it would contain, he'd already judged. I see it so many times, and I see signs of it with what you're saying Jeremy.

As I've said already, the fringe element is not what causes problems, we can take or leave those. What causes problems is the in fighting between those involved, when they try to force their view over others, and then when that doesn't work, begin mocking (or worse) those who think differently.

Valiens, for what it is worth, I'd like to add my two bits. I think I am really just adding my own take to a basic agreement with some of what is said above.

The first point is about "what is TRUE". If any of us are going to stand in judgement of others and try to differentiate what is TRUE from what is not in what they have said then we are on very very shaky ground. If you get right down to it you cannot prove that your own hands there in front of you really exist. You can't prove to me that YOU are not a figment of my imagination. You can't prove that anything that appears real is so. Seriously. People that have tried to get to the root proof of the nature of matter have go themselves right back into the realm of philosophy and mysticism. So, how then are we to begin proving ANYTHING. Descartes handled the issue by coming to the conclusion that the only provable thing is "I think therefore I am". I'd take it further. In my meditations I have managed to stop thinking. I believe you have done this too. Neither of us stopped "am-ing" by stopping thinking. In fact stopping thinking allowed me, anyway, access to ever greater beingness. But that is a different story. The point is, it seems to me, the only thing we know for sure is that each of us in conscious. And what happens to each of our consciousnesses are our experiences. If I say something is my experience then you have but two choices: to believe that it was indeed my experience or to call me a liar. That's up to you. If it IS my experience then it is my truth that it was so. So much for truth. It seems to me there is no such thing as one great unifying unarguable truth. There is only the truth that each of us hold within ourselves based upon our choices and our experiences. We are each our own truth.

So what about the paranormal? People delving into this stuff are intentionally looking into areas that are not consensus-reality based. We are specifically going to places where there is no society sanctioned agreement to fall back on. So how are we to decide then what is so and what is not so when another being comes along with a story? I guess we can look at the story and see if there are internal inconsistencies. But some of my own experiences have logical anomalies that I can't explain. Did I not experience them, then? I did. What of that? Or we can look to see if the character in question is in the habit of making things up or has elsewhere been proved to be not a credible witness. But what if I lied today and told the truth tomorrow? You see what I'm getting at? I'm simply saying that, I for one, find it difficult to stand in judgement of the veracity of other people's claims. What I can do is say: "is this story in any way consistent with my experience or my interests?" If it is then there is scope for some engagement. If there isn't then I leave it be. Simple. The fact that I can find absolutely no way to engage with one persons story does not mean that it isn't their experience. And what if it is their experience but I think they are possibly a bit delusional, what then? Well, it seems to me there is no real way to prove that we aren't all a little delusional. It can be shown that all of our senses are fallible under the right circumstances.

So where does this leave us? I shall speak for myself. I like to share experiences with other beings who want to do the same. Sometimes in so doing I learn something new. Sometimes it brings me forward to deeper understandings that seem to me, to my inner-intuition, to be valid. I like that process. I like to refine my inner-truth and I find a very good way of doing that to be to go to places that are not stultified by "normal" understandings and rationalisations. Where things haven't been put in comfortable boxes. I think it does the psyche good to hold the complexity and dichotomy that arises in such situations in the mind. Sometimes you can learn a lot about yourself by looking at that which makes you uncomfortable. I put it to you that ones discomfort can be a pointer to something inside your own psyche that is "disallowed" by you in you. Forgive the distance psycho-analysis but could it not be that it is your very discomfort with your own experiences and your desire to validate them that makes you wish to see other voices that make you uncomfortable silenced? Maybe you feel if we just shut down all the crack-pots then we'd get to the "real" stuff and begin to be able to prove some of this? Well - maybe, if we silenced the crack-pots enough we'd find there is no one left to say anything at all!

"There's a crack,
a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
That's how the light gets in"
- Leonard Cohen

Excellent replies in this thread...

May I add my nickels worth to the thread without stepping on toes hopefully.

Valiens (Jer), If I hadn't observed myself, something so unbelievable it left checking and rechecking my marbles............ I'd have said you were frootloops, dancing around like you do. I'd have (before I became aware that is) said, yeah right.......we're supposed to believe this guy...................

Do you see? I can believe what you share, because I've experienced myself........ therefore I tend to not doubt as I would have otherwise. We can't expect everyone to look at this matter the same as we do.......... it's the nature of the beast, it is what it is........... we should stay focussed and not be so concerned about name calling etc.
I totally agree w/what other's have said here....... ThoTh, great reply.

Valien, I believe you have much to share and people will listen if you stay focussed........ rather than play judge and jury. Ps... that goes for those of us that forgot our spelling and punctuation lessons also.

buddy!

cruiser

I do see your point, Cruiser. But I now see that people like you and me will continue to be laughing stocks or somehow suspect because we share equal time with insane people and charlatans. I just want that to stop. It is possible to be open to the unexplained--and to have unexplained events occur in your life--and still maintain critical thinking skills. If not we might as well buy any bridge someone wants to sell us or join a cult. I mean what the heck, right? Nobody can say for sure who's right and who's wrong. I'm sure the guy mugging me has his reasons. Probably abused as a child. Most of us have been there so why stop the mugging?

Pummel me. Take my cash. Put a bullet in my head. We're all one energy anyway.

I was afraid I had overstepped the line w/poorly chosen words so I'm happy to get your reply Jeremy. I understand what you say here. Now for me, I'm 43, and guess I've seen the best and the worst in people........ so that may have helped me to be less bothered by those that might want to make a mockery of us who've had 'experiences' of the unexplained. It may be that on some level folks like you and me have reached a point of understanding or we're meant to carry the message of 'it', whatever 'it' is....(paranormal from beyond?)......? When things began to happen around the home, very strange poltergeist things........ that was the start of my becoming 'aware'. A basically average housewife can't ignore the fact that the utensil drawer came flinging all the way out to the end, jumbling the utensils........ and pretend nothing happened. (etc.) But when I stood face to face w/a grey........... I pretty much knew I didn't want to take that to my grave w/me. Other than some family and a few friends, BoT is where I landed to share my experiences. People can laugh, call me crazy......... whatever. I don't care for lieing..........and I teach my children not to lie........
but I realized very quickly that all we can do is share the experience, and see what we might learn from others along the way. I can't control what others are going to say (or think)......... so best I don't even fight that battle. At some point in time, the truth will come out. Maybe not in our life-time but hey............ deep down I'm not looking to change the world so drastically. I don't want my kids to say, 'life was going pretty good until mom had to open her big mouth and tell the world she met an alien in the back yard'................ know what I mean?
But I'll admit, I'm more than curious to know what, who, where, how, and why we're experiencing.
We just need to stay focussed to share whatever message you feel led to..... and let the naysayers fall by the wayside. Keep your truth in focuss and don't let anybody get you down, see? And if that doesn't work, celexa does wonders for your outlook on life. lol
(I only say that because my Dr. perscribed it for an IBS condition end of '07..... and I've noticed a brighter outlook as a side-affect)
My sister keeps me well grounded........ no worries there.
Keep the message going, you're doing some pretty awesome work.

cruiser

Thanks, Cruiser. If the good work doesn't pan out I may check out the celexa.

Good idea Valiens.

And there's always the chance that someone was able to beam down some 3D looking alien grey into my backyard.... somehow causing my dogs to alert from inside and upstairs.......... to us finding it....... to it turning and looking our way........ to it vanishing as it turned away. After going to see the movie 'Iron Man' yesterday w/the family........... I'm wondering just how advanced we are?

All I can say is, if this is a game....... it's not a very nice one! I can describe what I saw.......but I don't know if it was man made or the real thing. Judging from the dogs behaivor....... it seemed to be every bit real.
I say this now, because I don't want to be one that spreads disinfo......... I can only describe it.

cruiser

Momma said:



I agree Momma, this has been a very enlightening thread.



It has also caused me to consider how I view others and what they have to say. It's always good to self-examine ourselves. Hopefully many will benefit from the exchange.

the problem, Valiens is that of definition. Who exactly will decide who the nutters and the liars are? And if we give someone that power - if we begin to allow censorship then how sure are you the censor won't take a dislike to YOU. Poof! No more Valiens words. So, my question to you: if you could wave a magic wand how would you have us re-organise the scene so that the undesirable elements go away and the good and useful stay? Who would decide which is which and how would the filter these things? And what if the got it wrong? Would there be recourse? And what about issues where people just don't know what they have experienced. they have experienced SOMETHING but they are reaching around for an explanation. What if there grasping for reason sometimes reaches into areas that seem wrong. Take the Time-Lord chap. He seems to have gotten up your nose. But read what he says: he says he has these weird memories and semi-knowingnesses and the best postulate he currently has is... he's a timelord! Okay. So what if he's wrong. Here he is trying to find his way and figure himself out. He seems both earnest and honest to me. He says he doesn't know and he says he is looking for answers. He is open to the fact that he might be wrong and deluded but he is driven by a desire to KNOW. I think he sounds like a good type. You don't like it one bit. What now? I gather I have gotten up your nose too a couple of times. What of it? How would we make you happy that there are no nutters and liars while still allowing that the topics under discussion are inherently without solid proof in any direction?

With respect Jeremy..Are you asking this question of others, in order for you to decide what it is that you want from this field ? or have you already made that decision ?

Hi, Momma:

I'm asking because I see this crying out in ufology to be taken seriously (dare I say as a field worthy of scientific inquiry) on the one hand and on the other this willingness to give charlatans the benefit of the doubt and--because they draw a crowd--the same air time as "serious" researchers. Listen, I'm not chastising BOT. I've asked Steve Bassett the same thing - How can you have Greer & Webre on the same stage as Dolan and Macabbee and expect to be taken seriously? Because by having them you're admitting that you either believe them, which is ludicrous, or you want the money they draw, which is insincere given that you're asking the media to take you seriously and demand disclosure.

So I feel like it's gut-check time. What are we here for? My instinct is to try to protect people from being suckered but the more I see, the more I wonder if, in fact, we allow ourselves to be suckered--or more to the point, maybe many of us don't care either way, we just like titillation. If it's fictitious or a genuine anomaly doesn't matter. Just make it a good story.

Zingdad - Who will say whether they're nuts or lying? I think if you're claiming to be an alien, a lord of anything, a hybrid, a what have you, and you're posting this holier-than-thouness on a message board but can't figure out spell check...That's an indication that you deserve to be ignored. lol

As for flat out charlatans - It's simple: Prove your claim. Take Steven Greer. He says he has footage and photos of a beautiful alien baby with a four-boned cranium in his possession. Really? Great. Let's see it. Wouldn't that help your disclosure movement?

Or take Greer again. He claims that one of his co-workers got cancer and died and then he developed cancer and beat it through the miracle of being Steven Greer. The government, or some shady group, gave them this cancer. Well it turns out that he was at a conference with Dr. Roger Leir and Roger asked him about his cancer. He said he just had 7 melanoma removed--which is already impossible. Next day, Leir sees him at the pool in his one-piece bathing suit. No scars. At all. Hmmm....

Or when Alfred Webre says that the towers were struck down on 9/11 by our government using reverse engineered alien beam technology. Or when he told reporters at the X-conference press conference that there are definitely underground alien bases on Mars.

Or when John Leer says there are aliens on the moon who are using beams to grab up our souls when we die.

Or when Richard Hoagland colors in Martian geography to his liking and tells you it's fossils.

Or when Michael Horn goes on Coast To Coast and lists the experts in photography and forestry who back up Billy Meier's claims and it turns out they don't (but that part goes unexamined by Coast).

And so on and so forth.

So for people like that the litmus test is: You make claims that are demonstrable and you've not demonstrated them. So guess what? OFF THE STAGE!

As for things that aren't demonstrable, like abductions, yeah - there's a huge gray area. But there's a vast difference between someone who says, "Look I had this thing happen to me and I don't know what it is...I suspect it's this...I'm not important here." And someone who says, "I'm an alien and I know the secrets of the universe."

Budd Hopkins uses the standard of preponderance of evidence. If he gets 50 people talking about grays one way and 2 people talking about amazing light beings with a message for humanity, he throws out the light being testimony. I don't know that I agree with doing that but there has to be some standard or else we'll end up wide-eyed bleevers.

I have to say that I do believe that those folks who come in and make up stories or write up plots from some cartoon do hurt the sharing of info. However, everyone who is online should have the brains and intuition to read whether something is true or a burp in the reality of the writer. I know that I sure threw a fit when the podcast about that Maitreya Dude was put up, because I knew that he was a hoax.

I figure it is kind of like dating services. Either you are smart enough to make a good choice, or you are stupid enough to deserve what you get.

The folks I worry about the most are the lost and needy wanderers. They know things are going on in their lives that are unsettling. Yet they are not usually able to share with family and close friends, so they go online or to the psychic phone lines for answers. It would be nice if there were some sort of registry for folks who have proven they are authentic in their work, and their ability to help.

I guess when push comes to shove, I still believe that folks have to develop their inner being so that they have the ability to judge things on their own.

dolphin

Forgive me for seeming a bit dim here Jeremy...but who are the 'we' being referred to ?..

Sorry for editing your post to highlight the 'we' btw..

Agreed entirely dolphin. At the same time some people may gain something from other's tales, whether they are fictitious or not. I tend to take in what adds-up (inside my own logic) and feels right, putting it into a "explore further & assimilate if accepted" portion of my mind. Stuff that doesn't resound (no matter how credible) I dismiss... though respecting the possibility that one day may view it with more attention.

valiens, not sure if you caught my appology earlier about "No One's Watching". I like how it shortens to NOW, clever.
In the interest of truth-finding & research I'm suprised you didn't respond again about the "movement" thing we share (darn, 'can't think of a better word to use, that sounds like 3 kinds of wrong ). I wonder how many others are experiencing this & are afraid of it or just afraid to tell anyone.

Jeremy,
I understand perfectly where you are coming from, but I think you know that having talked with me on other boards. The ufo and paranormal field in general is full of wackos and hoaxers and it can be very hard to tell who's being truthful and who's playing with a full deck.
IMO, this is inherent in the paranormal area since it is a scientifically marginalized and highly subjective area to begin with that has a great deal of faith involved from those who believe in it. Hansen has written eloquently on this in The Trickster and so has Denzler in The Lure Of The Edge. It's difficult to get at the truth.

I also see the position some have taken that we should at least listen to what people have to say even if it sounds crazy. We need to discriminate between facts and fancy but that is very tricky at times.

Momma, we refers to all of us. Anyone who wants to answer.

Juno, I did see that. Please don't take my not responding as a sign of anything other than if I respond to everything I'll be writing a book on here.

NOW is clever...wish I'd thought of it. Thanks! Stealing it!

As for Maitreya, I don't think he's lying. I think he had some experiences he misinterpreted and it gave him a god complex. I find it instructive. I'm sure one of his people is reading this and will chastize me. It is what it is.

Sorry to keep going on about this Jeremy..what I am struggling to find out is ..What are you here for..are you trying to protect people from being suckered..or allowing yourself to be suckered..or do you not care either way..and just like titillation..as long as it makes a good story ?..Is it a case of 'Physician heal thyself ?

Hello, I myself can't help but think that there is always more than I thought. Through the exp of others, similair exp to my own, I am not alone. I don't know how many years I just wondered why the h*ll no one see's and even more so why do they listen to me talk and understand what I am trying to convey but seem not hear. It felt after time that a different process was underway in my mind.....like follow through, start to finish, always left with another ? and no one looking.....I clammed up. I have been called many names just for being able to accept my own exp in living, the truth, it hurts, I clammed up. ?'ed my own well being...........This website BOT, is a luxury to me. It has helped me in extraordinary ways. regardless of my exp proof (I can't prove anything) there are other people with pieces to the puzzle that help me to determine, or validate my own self exp and, acceptance of the outcome. For me the reality of my statements are open to dissection, I am looking for the truth.....no matter what it makes itself to be, I just want to know man.
Simple put.......I don't like folks that make stuff up and try to pass it off as really happening. I feel it is harmful to the genuine pursuit of, "Just the facts". I believe it pans though, and through sorting through the mire of what to believe or what is credible that there is a need in a vague sort of way for the hoaxer. A crazy example........there is the video of a bird, looks like a ufo, if we didn't have video of the bird there would be nothing to compare it to. just my fractured thoughts. I guess in the long run I have appreciation for both sides of the coin. Good one Valiens.........Thanks. I am looking for whats real, it's important. Just an average Joe..........

After re-reading this thread, I think I get what Jeremy wants from this and other websites... (correct me if I'm wrong) ... you don't want these suspected hoaxers, liars and charlatans to be permitted to post? Or would you rather they be ignored or labeled hoax?

My next question is whose bullsh!t filter do we use to determine who is telling (their) truth and who is lying?

As a writer, writing your book - did you pad the story at all? Is every conversation verbatim, or did you inject your humor and perceptions into the story? If so, does this make your whole story BS?

I've heard some stories from very dear friends who believe they "aren't from here".... By all other standards, these folks are pretty normal. How can I tell them that their feeling isn't valid? By the same token, I don't discount your experience.

I understand your frustration - you're grouped with a bunch of woo-woos. Folks on the outside put all of us under one umbrella. There are people that exploit this. They tell tall tales. Perhaps they even giggle and sip a beer as they read the replies to their story. Maybe they mistake cordial conversation as a belief in their lie.... and maybe you also make the same mistake?

As for the names you dropped ... Greer and Leer - these guys are pretty big names in the UFO field. How do you keep up the momentum? How do you keep your audience? What if you had no new information. Maybe you'd come up with something over the top to get your readers interested again. Is it wrong? Maybe. Maybe in the grand scheme, keeping people interested by whatever means isn't the worst thing that they could do.

Keep in mind also, Jeremy, that not everyone is an impressionable teenager. The Jeremy Valiens Bullsh!t filter is yours. The RebelAngel Bullsh!t filter is mine. My filter is born of 47 years of sifting though poo. After raising four children I think my BSF is adequate.

Hey, how come I don't get a reply

Just thought you might be interested in something Whitley Strieber had to say some time ago..

"Abduction reports that are generated are not real. They are artifacts of hypnosis and cultural conditioning. We are experiencing a perceptual anomaly that is sufficiently ambiguous and intense that it demands an explanation. It is something human beings have been experiencing for a long time. It is the cause of "alien abduction" belief. What is really behind these experiences? We are. This is a human thing. However I would say that we and our world are vastly different and for more strange than we have ever dreamed or dare to imagine"

Dismissing all of those names as you do, based on a lack of proof, ignores the salient point that several people have made here. Where is your proof? You haven't got any I take it, so if we used your rationale, we should dismiss you, and what you have to say, correct? Greer may have been scarless in a swimsuit, but where's your evidence of abduction? No one is saying your experience wasn't real, but you have to admit you're not in a position to mock others for lack of evidence alone, and as I pointed out earlier, it's this backstabbing & infighting amongst the UFO community that does the most damage to it's credibility.

It looks to me like you're completely over generalising here, a point I made earlier, in that you can't assume because people respond to those who you consider fakes, that we're all naieve and gullible. As Strieber says, things are far more strange than we have ever dreamed to imagine. We make our own judgement calls, and contrary to what you may think, that's not based on a simple wanton desire to "believe everything".

I want crop circles from this field or i'm going home, well i thought it was funny .... sorry, carry on.. as you were.

good thread btw

Shame on you Ricky! You bad punster!