The Book Of THoTH

I guess I should first define "soul," since that's a hazy subject to me. I believe that, at the deepest level of reality, all things are one infinite mass consciousness/energy/soul. From that oneness, energy splits into 2, 4, 8 branches or layers of perception, which each subsequent layer of splitting being more individuated/distinct/specialized than the next, while at the same time existing multidimensionally as one whole. For example, the energy of the atoms in your body fuse together to become your incarnated consciousness, and however many of those that exist fuse together into your higher self, and a bunch of higher selves fuse together into an oversoul, etc, etc... all essentially one being.

So, which of these layers do you call your soul? For the purpose of this post I guess I'll narrow down "soul" to somewhere between your incarnated consciousness and your higher self. Basically, the stuff that makes you able to tell yourself apart from other entities... the stuff that makes you you. What is that stuff? Your memories? experiences? personality? relationships? beliefs? ideas? How do you define yourself and where do you house your consciousness? If you consider yourself any of those things, what happens to your soul when they either change or are "destroyed"? If they change, do you become a new being? If they are destroyed, is your soul destroyed with them?

I believe everything exists in a paradox or being both real and an illusion, but if I am to define reality, I would say it is whatever remains constant and doesn't change. Then again, I also say that change is the only constant in the universe. But, basically, whatever is "real" can't be "destroyed." What can be destroyed? Anything that can be pinned down, defined, and/or has a form. This need not be a physical form. I consider ideas and beliefs to have a form. A form sets the boundaries and limitations necessary for something to be defined and comprehensible to our minds. It is also what allows that something to be destroyed.

Many people house their consciousness in their personality, their memories, beliefs, and ideas of who they are or what they want to be. I see those things as an artificial shell hovering around who we actually are underneath. They are all things that take effort to maintain and sometimes must be defended. They are things we want to prove to ourselves or others. They don't really exist as part of you, but the passive essense of those things, such as what you've internalized/learned from your experiences, do... and those are not as easily destroyed, if at all. If a person invests most of their consciousness/energy into that outer shell, and that shell is somehow destroyed, would not that consciousness also get destroyed along with it? It would revert to a blank slate of raw material that gets recycled and later used to create new "souls."

What do terms like "old" and "young" soul mean if we all sparked into existence at the same time? I believe all physical processes have a parallel in the mental, emotional, and spiritual worlds. If physical bodies die and are recycled to make new bodies, why not etheric bodies too? This could be volluntarily, such as a soul that feels it learned all it can or is tired, can fuse its individual consciousness back fully into Nirvana and become raw material for newborn souls. Or it could happen by force, such as if you encounter a being that senses you keep your soul on your sleeve (in that artificial shell) and knows how to tear it off.

I had always assumed souls are immortal, and these ideas are a new development for me, having a lot to do with the type of beings that I intend to work with. In order to interact with them safely, I feel I have to find that part of myself that can't die. Anyway, I hope this wasn't too confusing... I've found I'm having a hard time explaining abstract things lately.

Hi..If I may..

IMO There is no death to a soul...We are..after all..as old as the universe..

I guess if there was an end to our universe..like an actual cease to exist....there may be a possibility of another transformation..if that is what you mean...

However I do take it that you are meaning an..end..and so..I say..no..there is no end..
Of course..this is what I say from my learning's..during my awakening..

Once a human can leave their body..they can see without eyes..and feel with out a body..and think...unlike we can ever know..as human..with our minds.

We are made up of the universe..therefore ..we are as old as the universe..

It is an energy that we are..and will always be.

You talk about having to find a part of you that does not die..I say..these human bodies..these vessels..or shells...are only for a fleeting moment in time.. THAT fleeting moment..our life..is to be used to learn..and grow..of course happiness and love is part of our being..but so is compassion..and giving..

Being human is one of the most beautiful things in the universe..Being able to enjoy the sunshine on your face..or tasting your favorite foods or drink..smelling your favorite scents..the feelings of love and happiness..ALL that we can enjoy as human..is unique..to the rest of the universe..

What I mean..as Human..ours is the primitive..waiting to break free..Our souls know..already...It is our species (the primitive mind)..that does not..

To begin to see one's own self (soul) one must clear the way from all the destructive and obstructive thoughts and feelings that are instilled in us daily from our world we live in (that alone..is a difficult task).

It is sad how we don't see it yet..but we all will..ever single one of us will understand the universe..life..and what it meant to be Human.

We were put here to learn..and grow..to new levels..

There are more and more..that are beginning to awaken..to everything..and see how far off course..Humans are.

K...maybe I went off course..but..you know...it all connects..

think of it like this.


1 being that is everything and everyone, made up of pure consciousness.

1 can be divided infinitely.

us, lesser beings unconnected to the whole *thinking that we are only ourselves* daydream little scenarios where the first thing in the daydream lead to the next event in the daydream. imagine infinite scenarios where it starts with the simplest and gets more complex along its variety ( i believe time is an illusion ).

What i'm saying is, all this is the dream of one which is everyone, in Other words,
whether it's good or if it's bad, it's already set to happen, think of it as a never ending equation.

( the equation being separate from the one, capable of every possibility in just one grand hallucination in which everyone contriubutes their ripple effect which leads to the next segment of the equation )

so what you feel , free will, is not free will, just conditioned will, you are who you are, therefore what you do, makes sense because it relates to who you are, and what happened made you who you are.

Everything from armageddon to where a raindrop lands was caused by something.

BTW, if a consciousness is just consciousness then that consciousness should have control of when to be not conscious , correct ?

because there isn't anything external in play, like you said, "infinite consciousness"
life no matter how gay it can be.

it's just nature, a variety of a lot of things together creating this here that you are experiencing.

Hmmm... I noticed you offered a pretty clear definition of soul as you see it, but didn't define how you're using "die". Kinda hard to answer with one of the terms wide open like that.




Tiger

Yeah, that's a bit of a hazy area too. For the purpose of this thread, I will define "death" as a "soul" losing its ability to distinguish itself from others and reverting to raw materials that are either recycled into and redistributed by the whole, or absorbed by another entity.

The way I see things, sure, everything we know is pretty much an illusion. But it is an illusion that serves a useful purpose for growth, so in the sense that it triggers evolution and understanding it is very real. We may all be fleeting thoughts in the mind of God/dess, but it is through us that God/dess experiences and understands itself. Just as emotions and thoughts are real to us, so are we real to God/dess. Besides, if everything is an illusion, but there is no objective reality to measure it against, then everything is also real.


Do I understand correctly in that you are saying free will is an illusion, and that everything is predetermined? Classical physicists believed that. They believed that once all the laws of the universe are understood, and every particle accounted for, every action, every thought, all of history could be predicted till the end of time. Then along came quantum physics and blew their hopes for a perfectly clockwork universe out of the water. Sub-atomic particles adhere not to definites but nebulous probabilities, and oftentimes are just downright weird. To me, this is proof of free will, because I believe choice takes place even at the sub-atomic level... in fact, this is where I believe much of reality creation takes place.

Of course, quantum physics is a relatively new field, and you can make the argument that these particles only behave erratically because we don't understand even deeper underlying forces that control them. You say cause and effect drive every minute occurence in the cosmos, and I essentially agree with you, I just call it free will (action/cause) and karma (consequences/feedback) respectively. I also believe that all possibilities/probabilities exist and happen in one parallel reality or another, but I don't believe this negates free will. In fact, I believe this is absolutely necessary for us to even have free will.

I have played around with a model of the universe in which there is both absolute individual free will as well as infinite possibilities for the whole. I basically imagine all possibilities as points on a plane and the individuated being's consciousness, which I call Locus of Consciousness (LoC), traveling from one point to another based on their free will and karma, creating the "illusion" of time and chronological progression. Although other beings exist within the reality of every point, their active consciousness isn't necessarily present, because they are their own LoC hopping along their own chosen path. This would mean that any reality you find yourself in is entirely of your own making.

I don't particularly like the idea because it feels too lonely to me, but it's the only model I have thought up that meets the criteria for a universe that is both absolute and relative. I hope I will come up with a better model that includes a middle ground where true interaction between several or all LoC can meaningfully take place. Maybe the LoC don't reside exclusively at a given point, but are a kind of halo that overlaps with nearby points, as well. I don't know. I just thought I'd throw the idea out there. Perhaps somebody can help me amend it.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

Well, by the first and third terms of that definition I'd have to reply "yes", as I've observed exactly that to happen on one occasion. (good thing I didn't try to reply before, since I use a quite different set of definitions, personally)




Tiger

Interesting. Could you elaborate on what happened or how?

Also, by "losing its ability to distinguish itself from others and reverting to raw materials" I don't mean a consciousness choosing to transcend the "ego" (which I actually define as the seat of self, identity, and individual power) and align its consciousness completely with oneness/Nirvana. I mean it as a result of either a volatile interaction with another entity, or the failure to sustain the "critical mass" necessary for a being to exist as its own individual/perception through neglect of the etheric bodies.

(Critical mass: I sometimes imagine soul formation, or the formation of an autonomous individual consciousness, being a lot like star formation. That is, as a bundle of energy clumps around a kind of gravitational center until it reaches a critical conscious-mass and implodes into a point. I guess to draw further on the star formation parallel, the consciousness then becomes a self-sustaining nuclear reactor that uses experiences as fuel and synthesizes them into growth... or, becomes autonomous in circulating energy between its etheric organs - chakras - as well as being able to draw in energy from its surroundings and, if it digs deep into its own center, from the Source that underlies all things.)

Mmmm... Well, the short version is that the being in question held an over riding desire for it's personal "bad thing" to have never happened, to know the unfolding of it's path without that one great traumatic segment having ever occurred. In the end the being chose to pay that extreme price in order to achieve that goal in as much measure as was available.




Tiger

I don't believe in physics , because ask yourself, who really made those "rules"

they're not relavent to the whole scheme, besides many top notch dudes have already found many flaws in quantum physics ,

What i was saying was that one effect in this dream causes the next effect, imagine when 6 billion plus effects are working at the same time.

you overthink things.


physics is the alternative to believe when you're too scared of thinking beyond.

like believing in Christ instead of thinking for yourself.

it sure does feel like free will, and it might as well be.

Hi Neiru2012, you’re too early for 2012...and welcome to BoT (Book of Thoth)

Ask a question, what if my soul gets caught up in a black hole where no light or dimension apparently could exist or exit for that matter, does my soul become nada? Or my soul is eternally doom in it? (I’m fairly sure I don’t recall anyone who came out of it)

cheers

We must have very different understandings of physics. I don't think there's anything "beyond" physics/science, because the definition of science is knowledge and understanding of the universe/"reality." Currently physics on Earth is very far from that, and won't achieve any significant level of understanding until it stops thinking it can isolate parts of the whole and observe instead of interacting with it directly, but it is still one of the best barometers we have to gauge our understanding and inspire "spiritual" thought. This rests on my belief that every physical process has a parallel in mind, emotion, spirit, etc, and that the best way to understand reality as it is relevant to the present is to study what the concensus consciousness has created for itself. I see reality as fluid, shaped and changed by both individual and mass consciousness, and this is not beyond the scope of physics.

I also believe that, while the universe can (and does) potentially do completely unprecedented things (although we'd probably not notice even if it was staring us in the face because all of reality likely rewires itself to that change) or even blink out of existence (God/dess stops thinking about it, I guess ), there is still enough concensus at the foundation of a given reality that is set by its primary creators as default rules which are followed and should be followed if it is to serve as a useful learning environment/simulation. That is, we choose to enter a reality with particular rules because we want those limitations to teach us something... and entities such as Neo-from-the-Matrix who awaken to their ability to disregard those rules, are not liberating anyone, but often disrupting others' experience of that reality. Which is why various transcendant masters choose to not intervene directly and/or move to realities more reflective of their new potential. These rules, this universe... they were set in place because they are useful and beneficial. They're not there to antagonize you. If you didn't want these rules, you would've gone to another reality, or stayed in oneness. There are cases where the rules are meant to be overcome, as well... there's room for every possibility.


I feel this assumes we all exist in a single reality on all levels. This might be the case, but it might not be, which is why I presented that LoC example.


That's a great question, hehehe. It's actually one of the main reasons for this topic. There is still some debate on whether black holes exist (after all, humans haven't exactly come into direct contact with one), but lets assume they do, because they are my favorite things in this universe. I believe spacetime includes everything residing in this universe (physical and non-physical), and the distortions to spacetime that affect physical things reflect in the mental, emotional, and spiritual components of those things, as well. So what happens if an entity enters a black hole? Well, if it's an entity that knows what it's doing, probably nothing. Ships and entities use black hole-like singularities to travel all the time, although even they can usually exist there for very limited and unstable amounts of "time." But what does that travel really mean? I believe black holes are distortions to this universe's spacetime so extreme they actually create, well, a hole. That hole exits outside of this universe (lets call our universe the "Manifest"), to a completely different state of existence... something that I call the Void, which is an infinite sea of chaos, destruction, potential, and much, much more that entities immersed in this universe can barely begin to comprehend.

Normally, an entity from this universe coming into contact with a Void being is instantly annihilated because they're mutually incompatible (the Void being is far too chaotic and expansive for a Manifest being to handle, and it gets ripped apart just like matter is in black holes)... not like matter and antimatter, because in that case they both are annihilated... but the Void being is ironically more stable/stronger than the Manifest. They are not better, it is just they way those different states of existence function - different default rules. Manifest universes are born from the Void and, at the end of their cycle, are destroyed by the Void. By passing through the Void (via a black hole) with the propper technology or state of consciousness, you bypass the rules and distances of the Manifest because you are outside of it. So... depending on how deep you go into a black hole and how prepared you are, you will either... (A) get ripped apart and crunched into the singularity along with everything else, (B) pass straight into the Void and get annihilated there, or (C) pass through unharmed.

So to make sure I'm understanding this, and I'll use a simple example so as not to confuse, but please tell me if I interpreted what you said correct.

EverydayJoe has lived last few years with regret over an act/event commited in 2001. Out drinking with friends, had maybe too much to consume, got into horrible car wreck, and the passenger, his best friend/girlfriend is now in a wheelchair for life/possible coma with no idea when they'll awaken from coma. So Joe has been consumed with guilt for years now, and wishing it undone, took extreme measures (possible contract made with entity from the "other side") to ensure this didn't take place, and in the process the price he paid was his soul was absorbed by another entity?

Fairly simple basic "i'd done anything to undo this one wrong" example. Is this sort of what you're saying happened?

I ask only because, as is my understanding, a soul can indeed die, in the sense of absorbtion by another entity. Was consulting two years back to learn astral projection, and my guide was laying out some ground rules for the "other side", and I call it other side just as a generic mostly inclusive thing. call it astral realm, spirit plane, whatever, my catch-all for it is Other Side.

But to corroborate what White Tiger said, which if I understand correct, using my very generic example, then I too have heard of this. The cautions I was given by my guide, cautions given to me by another guide almost exactly to the point two years before meeting my 2nd guide, was that once you'd crossed over, to be very careful of dealing with entities encountered. You can not always trust those you speak with, you can not and should not take them at their word just because, as some are looking to confuse and ensnare you, while others won't even go for subtlety, they'll just straight claim you (soul and mind) as theirs. Leaving your body behind in a "vegetable" state for the duration of your physical bodys life. But the warnings I got from both guides, who I'd call enlightened Masters, was that if you crossed the wrong entity or entered into a contract/negotiation without fully aware of what you were getting into, that yes your life(soul) was forfeit.

Neiru2012, Maybe this will clarify some things for you;
Firstly, the soul doesn't really have 'layers'. humans need to organize everything to their liking in their own thoughts, these layers are really, like our waking world, all upon one another and existing symotaniously in the same place.
In the case of death, our lives are based on how we view in the minds eye the description of everything we learned in our lives, and example of this is a tree; trees are infinitely diverse from one to the other, but when you think of a tree you have a set idea in your mind what that is, and when you think about it you think about that over what might be in front of your face. These are the inventory of descriptions we use in our daily lives. Upon death our perception blows out and we perceive all the layers of our world and of ourselves at once, all the layers that coexists symotaniously at the same place, at the same time. So we lose all of the aspects of ourselves that revolve around our inventory if descriptions, our personality, emotions, etc. Because we have no basis for comparison to what we're experiencing; they become pointless.
This state can be reached while living however.

Anyway, a Soul can be destroyed in a sense, being energy it can be dispersed. I've done this myself to beings that have been particularly malicious to me; how this is done basically is through visualization you take out all the negative energy of a being (dark-blue is paralyzing to negative energy, for some reason.) and then dissipate it in positive energy. This does one of two things; leaves the being open pray for many of the energetic beings that would pray on it, it also leaves it extremely off-balance, and being so it doesn't have the power or continuity to keep it's form so it slowly dissipates. This disrupts consciousness but all energy seeks to return to it's source, or what it once was, so dissipating energy can leave it open to re-constitute it's form.
These are the two extremes that destroy consciousness, the former only pertains to human consciousness.

I think they can be absorbed, thereby destroying their sense of self, and I'm pretty sure there are beings that feed on the souls of others.

Question if I may:

What kind of beings have this ability? Most certainly not in our, what we'd call the physical plane, not in that sense, but what kind of being could feed on anothers soul, and does that soul become extinguished?

I ask for understanding and sharing of information, not to nay-say or rebuke.


See, the Guides/Masters I was to train with, things fell thru, so while I only got a concept of danger on the other side, having never travelled or visited I'd like to at the least get some enlightenment or further clarification if possible.

this is a great read ! .... Thanks guys ....

My basic belief is that the consciousness develops an ability to be attracted to and even feed itself energy to sustain and develop in complexity. Other entities can interfere with this process. I beleive that the soul ( as it was when it used a physical body ) can change and die if it chooses to, I am not sure how something else would " die it" without it wanting to "die" ... as I dont know enough about how it sustains itself , but I can see how you would distract , weaken , alter or affect one... so I dont dispute it could happen.

just my two cents !